Question:
I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at http://www.organicfood.co.uk/inspiration/tenways_sugar.html: 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum disease. 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low in calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning. 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b vitamins and minerals. 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old. 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from the tea tree. 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness is due to the same molecules as sugar. 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or spreads, often organically grown. 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B vitamins. 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly. 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so unhealthy. Best, Kenneth
Response:
Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at all? — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all > that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been > researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I > know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. > Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at > http://www.organicfood.co.uk/inspiration/tenways_sugar.html: > 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with > negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum > disease. > 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low > in calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights > gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning. > 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of > calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b > vitamins and minerals. > 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the > calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, > and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old. > 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is > often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from > the tea tree. > 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very > high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness > is due to the same molecules as sugar. > 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the > blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or > spreads, often organically grown. > 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, > millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B > vitamins. > 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is > actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of > calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly. > 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to > raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so unhealthy. > Best, > Kenneth
Response:
> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all > that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been > researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I > know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. > Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at
<snip> Oh, not again! Stevia is illegal to sell as a sweetener in this country (USA). It is banned in some other countries. And I’ve heard it tastes really bad. I would avoid it at all costs. I’ve seen no evidence to say that other artificial sweeteners are unsafe. Yes, I’ve seen warnings, but they are totally unwarrented and patently lies. > 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with > negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum > disease.
But probably not safe. At least it can’t be sold here as a sweetener and it is banned in many places. > 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low > in calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights > gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning.
Not sure what this is, but does it contain carbs? > 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of > calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b > vitamins and minerals.
How do you know it raises BG more gently? Does it not contain the same amount of carbs as sugar? > 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the > calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, > and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old.
And it will raise your BG just like sugar will. > 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is > often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from > the tea tree.
And it will raise your BG just like sugar will. > 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very > high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness > is due to the same molecules as sugar.
And it will raise your BG just like sugar will. > 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the > blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or > spreads, often organically grown.
And they will raise your BG just like sugar will. Also, they contain fructose and studies have shown this (when extracted and used in concentrated doses) to be bad for diabetics. > 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, > millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B > vitamins.
Don’t know what this is. But probably has a lot of carbs. > 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is > actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of > calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly.
I don’t think this raises BG very slowly, and studies have shown it to be bad for diabetics. High fructose corn syrup has also been linked as a possible cause for obesity. > 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to > raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so
unhealthy. Don’t know about that. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Response:
Well then by all means use the "organic" substances, and suffer the consequences. Personally I will continue to use "artificial" (haha) sweeteners. Let’s see whose Bgs are better. Keep us posted! Sleepy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all >that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been >researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I >know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. >Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at >http://www.organicfood.co.uk/inspiration/tenways_sugar.html: > 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with >negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum >disease. > 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low >in calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights >gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning. > 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of >calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b >vitamins and minerals. > 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the >calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, >and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old. > 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is >often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from >the tea tree. > 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very >high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness >is due to the same molecules as sugar. > 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the >blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or >spreads, often organically grown. > 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, >millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B >vitamins. > 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is >actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of >calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly. > 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to >raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so unhealthy. >Best, >Kenneth
Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at >all? >– >t2_lurking >geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom >Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) > I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all > that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been > researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I > know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. > Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at > http://www.organicfood.co.uk/inspiration/tenways_sugar.html: > 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with > negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum > disease. > 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low > in calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights > gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning. > 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of > calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b > vitamins and minerals. > 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the > calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, > and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old. > 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is > often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from > the tea tree. > 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very > high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness > is due to the same molecules as sugar. > 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the > blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or > spreads, often organically grown. > 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, > millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B > vitamins. > 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is > actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of > calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly. > 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to > raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so >unhealthy. > Best, > Kenneth
A quick look at the list suggests that diabetics can find some alternative "natural" sweeteners that could solve a lot of our problems. However, to an organic chemist, this list isn’t as delightful as it might seem. These sweeteners are either based on fructose, which is considered especially unhealthy for diabetics, or glucose which raises our bG. Many of them add a bit of flavor to the sweetened food, and tend to reduce the rate at which they raise our bG. If you can "cut the dose" because of superior flavor, or if your impaired glucose metabolism can keep up with the retarded release of glucose into the blood, then some of the substitutes will do well for you. However, none of them are the "magic bullet" which will let us casually eat "naturally-sweetened" desserts while avoiding augmenting our insulin in order to do so. 1. Fructose: At first glance, fructose sounds like an ideal sweetener since it raises bG so slowly. However, the latest findings on fructose indicate that it is bad for normies, and very bad for Insulin Resistant folks. It degrades the already poor T2 lipid profiles. http://www.mendosa.com/diabetes_update_28.htm "The organization’s (ADA) new statement, which is in the January 2002 issue of Diabetes Care and available on-line at no charge at http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/1/202, for the first time, however, says that we should avoid fructose other than that which occurs naturally in fruit. This is in spite of the fact that fructose causes less of a rise in blood glucose than sugar. Specifically, its glycemic index is 32 (where white bread = 100), while table sugar (sucrose) has a GI of 92. Then, why avoid fructose? Because "fructose may adversely effect plasma lipids," the ADA says. . . . . .While the new statement didn’t cite sources for the effect of fructose on lipids, they are easily found. One person who has campaigned vigorously against fructose for years is Nancy Appleton, the author of Lick the Sugar Habit (Garden City Park, N.Y.: Avery Publishing Group, 1996). Ms. Appleton writes on page 90 of her book: Dr. J. Hallfrisch studied cholesterol and triglyceride levels and found that fructose, unfortunately, caused a general increase in both the total serum cholesterol level and the low-density lipoprotein fraction of cholesterol in most subjects. The triglyceride levels also rose significantly, especially in those persons whose blood sugar levels rise higher than normal when they eat sugar. It was concluded that high levels of dietary fructose can produce undesirable changes in blood lipid levels, which are associated with heart disease. . . ." (BTW: Quentin has found this statement repeated in very reputable scientific journals) 2. Barley Syrup is essentially Maltose. Maltose is two molecules of glucose stuck together. It splits in the digestive system and enters our bodies as glucose. Its effect on bG is going to be a function of how fast your digestive system processes the maltose, and the amount you feel is necessary to add to food to produce the desired sweetness. 3. Table Sugar: Sucrose Sucrose is a molecule containing one molecule of glucose and one molecule of fructose stuck together. It is split in our digestive systems to form a mix of 50% glucose and 50% fructose. One could argue that the worst thing table sugar does to a diabetic is load us with all that fructose. 4. Honey is a mixture of fructose, glucose and a little bit of maltose and sucrose (table sugar). http://www.ento.vt.edu/~fell/apiculture/HoneyComposition/honey_compos… tm Fructose 38%, Glucose 31%, Maltose 7% sucrose ~1.2 As such, it contains about as much fructose as table sugar (that 7% maltose ends up as glucose) and is just as hazardous to our lipid profiles. 5. Maple syrup is mostly "table sugar" dissolved in water with a few flavoring ingredients. http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/b856_77.html: Sucrose 90-100% , glucose 0-10% 6. Molasses is mostly sucrose with a bit of glucose and fructose http://www.rhhall.ie/bulletins/molasses_4.htm 7. Amazake is made by breaking down the starch in brown rice to form sugars. Since starch is essentially a polymer of glucose, I would guess that breaking down the starch produces glucose, maltose, and the higher polymers, i.e. a process similar to the manufacture of barley syrup. Nearly all of the starch break-down produces produce glucose in the digestive system. Again, like barley syrup, the rise in bG is a function of how fast your digestive system splits the glucose out, and how much you feel is necessary to add to your meal to produce the desired sweetness. 8. Fruit concentrates are essentially mixtures of glucose, fructose and sucrose. http://www.dorway.com/natsweet.html 9. Fructo-oligosaccharides are non-digestiable. Thus they have some similarities to Splenda in that they sweeten without raising bG. However, they are known to produce gas, bloating and diarrhea. They are considered more of a supplement to improve the mix of gut bacteria when taken in small doses. As such, they are a bit pricey. (U.S. $0.20 /gram) http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=129 10. Stevia: Any mention of stevia tends to start arguments. Note that is banned for use as a sweetener in the U.S., Canada and E.U. http://www.trutinadulcem.com/stevia_update.htm The E.U. has looked at petitions to approve Stevia many a time, but has not removed the ban, e.g. http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/webpage/stevia The most potent argument is: ". . .The data considered by the Committee indicated that the extract has the potential to produce adverse effects in the male reproductive system that could affect fertility and that a metabolite produced by the human gut microflora, steviol, is genotoxic (ie. damages DNA). . ." No easy answers, but remember: "If it were easy, they would cut our pay." Regards Old Al
Response:
> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all > that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been > researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I > know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. > Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at
Keith this is not a place to sell your ares or push alternatives to SAFE sugar substitutes by saying they are unhealthy. In a word or two Get Lost. — Ronnie Ruff So shines a good deed in a weary world. –Willy Wonka– I pray for the power. To turn it around. I’m too old to die young. And too young to die now. Warren Zevon 1980 http://www.livejournal.com/users/ronnie_in_dc
Response:
Great answers Al. Thanks! I learned, or was put on the path to knowledge. — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at >all? >– >t2_lurking >geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom >Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) >> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all >> that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been >> researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I >> know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. >> Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at >> http://www.organicfood.co.uk/inspiration/tenways_sugar.html: >> 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with >> negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum >> disease. >> 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low >> in calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights >> gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning. >> 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of >> calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b >> vitamins and minerals. >> 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the >> calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, >> and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old. >> 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is >> often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from >> the tea tree. >> 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very >> high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness >> is due to the same molecules as sugar. >> 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the >> blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or >> spreads, often organically grown. >> 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, >> millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B >> vitamins. >> 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is >> actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of >> calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly. >> 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to >> raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so >unhealthy. >> Best, >> Kenneth > A quick look at the list suggests that diabetics can find some > alternative "natural" sweeteners that could solve a lot of our problems. > However, to an organic chemist, this list isn’t as delightful as it might > seem. These sweeteners are either based on fructose, which is considered > especially unhealthy for diabetics, or glucose which raises our bG. > Many of them add a bit of flavor to the sweetened food, and tend to reduce > the rate at which they raise our bG. If you can "cut the dose" because of > superior flavor, or if your impaired glucose metabolism can keep up with > the retarded release of glucose into the blood, then some of the substitutes > will do well for you. However, none of them are the "magic bullet" which > will let us casually eat "naturally-sweetened" desserts while avoiding > augmenting our insulin in order to do so. > 1. Fructose: At first glance, fructose sounds like an ideal sweetener > since it raises bG so slowly. However, the latest findings on fructose > indicate that it is bad for normies, and very bad for Insulin Resistant > folks. It degrades the already poor T2 lipid profiles. > http://www.mendosa.com/diabetes_update_28.htm > "The organization’s (ADA) new statement, which is in the January 2002 issue > of Diabetes Care and available on-line at no charge at > http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/1/202, for the first > time, however, says that we should avoid fructose other than that which > occurs naturally in fruit. This is in spite of the fact that fructose causes > less of a rise in blood glucose than sugar. Specifically, its glycemic index > is 32 (where white bread = 100), while table sugar (sucrose) has a GI of 92. > Then, why avoid fructose? Because "fructose may adversely effect plasma > lipids," the ADA says. . . > . . .While the new statement didn’t cite sources for the effect of fructose > on lipids, they are easily found. One person who has campaigned vigorously > against fructose for years is Nancy Appleton, the author of Lick the Sugar > Habit (Garden City Park, N.Y.: Avery Publishing Group, 1996). Ms. Appleton > writes on page 90 of her book: > Dr. J. Hallfrisch studied cholesterol and triglyceride levels and found that > fructose, unfortunately, caused a general increase in both the total serum > cholesterol level and the low-density lipoprotein fraction of cholesterol in > most subjects. The triglyceride levels also rose significantly, especially > in those persons whose blood sugar levels rise higher than normal when they > eat sugar. It was concluded that high levels of dietary fructose can produce > undesirable changes in blood lipid levels, which are associated with heart > disease. . . ." > (BTW: Quentin has found this statement repeated in very reputable > scientific journals) > 2. Barley Syrup is essentially Maltose. Maltose is two molecules of > glucose stuck together. It splits in the digestive system and enters our > bodies as glucose. Its effect on bG is going to be a function of how fast > your digestive system processes the maltose, and the amount you feel is > necessary to add to food to produce the desired sweetness. > 3. Table Sugar: Sucrose > Sucrose is a molecule containing one molecule of glucose and one molecule of > fructose stuck together. It is split in our digestive systems to form a mix > of 50% glucose and 50% fructose. One could argue that the worst thing table > sugar does to a diabetic is load us with all that fructose. > 4. Honey is a mixture of fructose, glucose and a little bit of maltose and > sucrose (table sugar).
http://www.ento.vt.edu/~fell/apiculture/HoneyComposition/honey_compos… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> tm > Fructose 38%, Glucose 31%, Maltose 7% sucrose ~1.2 > As such, it contains about as much fructose as table sugar (that 7% maltose > ends up as glucose) and is just as hazardous to our lipid profiles. > 5. Maple syrup is mostly "table sugar" dissolved in water with a few > flavoring ingredients. > http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/b856_77.html: > Sucrose 90-100% , glucose 0-10% > 6. Molasses is mostly sucrose with a bit of glucose and fructose > http://www.rhhall.ie/bulletins/molasses_4.htm > 7. Amazake is made by breaking down the starch in brown rice to form > sugars. Since starch is essentially a polymer of glucose, I would guess > that breaking down the starch produces glucose, maltose, and the higher > polymers, i.e. a process similar to the manufacture of barley syrup. Nearly > all of the starch break-down produces produce glucose in the digestive > system. Again, like barley syrup, the rise in bG is a function of how fast > your digestive system splits the glucose out, and how much you feel is > necessary to add to your meal to produce the desired sweetness. > 8. Fruit concentrates are essentially mixtures of glucose, fructose and > sucrose. > http://www.dorway.com/natsweet.html > 9. Fructo-oligosaccharides are non-digestiable. Thus they have some > similarities to Splenda in that they sweeten without raising bG. However, > they are known to produce gas, bloating and diarrhea. They are considered > more of a supplement to improve the mix of gut bacteria when taken in small > doses. As such, they are a bit pricey. (U.S. $0.20 /gram) > http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=129 > 10. Stevia: Any mention of stevia tends to start arguments. Note that is > banned for use as a sweetener in the U.S., Canada and E.U. > http://www.trutinadulcem.com/stevia_update.htm > The E.U. has looked at petitions to approve Stevia many a time, but has not > removed the ban, e.g. > http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/webpage/stevia > The most potent argument is: > ". . .The data considered by the Committee indicated that the extract has > the potential to produce adverse effects in the male reproductive system > that could affect fertility and that a metabolite produced by the human gut > microflora, steviol, is genotoxic (ie. damages DNA). . ." > No easy answers, but remember: "If it were easy, they would cut our pay." > Regards > Old Al
Response:
in reply to: >> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all >> that healthy because they are chemically altered substances.
<snip> > A quick look at the list suggests that diabetics can find some >alternative "natural" sweeteners that could solve a lot of our problems. >However, to an organic chemist, this list isn’t as delightful as it might >seem. These sweeteners are either based on fructose, which is considered >especially unhealthy for diabetics, or glucose which raises our bG. >Many of them add a bit of flavor to the sweetened food, and tend to reduce >the rate at which they raise our bG. If you can "cut the dose" because of >superior flavor, or if your impaired glucose metabolism can keep up with >the retarded release of glucose into the blood, then some of the substitutes >will do well for you. However, none of them are the "magic bullet" which >will let us casually eat "naturally-sweetened" desserts while avoiding >augmenting our insulin in order to do so.
<more good stuff snipped> Hi Al and Kenneth As soon as I saw the original post I knew the knee-jerk reactions would come. Therefore it was so refreshing to see a reasoned, logical and informative reply. Thanks for the education. Posts like this are the reason I hang around here. Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
Response:
What I would like to know is what quantities of fructose were consumed to have the adverse effect on blood lipids, and its effects in glycating haemoglobin? For someone (like me) following a carbohydrate-restricted diet, where the mass of carbs in fructose is taken into account in the overall carb quantity consumed, would fructose still adversely affect my lipids? My meter indicates moderate rise in blood glucose when using small quantities of fructose as a sweetener. On the use of stevia, I understand that it is banned for use in the US and parts of Europe, yet it is widely used in Japan and Brazil. What studies conclusively found the adverse effects of the use of Stevia? Whilst not in the same context, marijuana is banned in the US and most of Europe, yet is about to be legalised in the Netherlands. Is there sufficient scientific proof from independent studies that conclusively finds that Stevia is unsuitable for human consumption, and if so why does the Japanese Government choose to ignore it? Stevia is available here in South Africa, about at about twice the price of Nutrasweet equivalents. Splenda has not been approved and is unavailable. I have tried both Stevia and fructose, and would appreciate a balanced and knowledgeable answer to some of my questions. Mano Govender T2 since March 2002
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
>> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all > that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been > researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I > know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. > Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at >Keith this is not a place to sell your ares or push alternatives to SAFE >sugar substitutes by saying they are unhealthy. >In a word or two Get Lost.
Hi Ronnie. Believe it or not I generally agree with you and value what you say – although I don’t often post that. I doubt that you care anyway. I also have no time or sympathy for spam. But I’m a little sick of the automatic knee-jerk reactions some legitimate posters get. Not all of us have the experience and knowledge of past flames and wars here. A little polite background on that history instead of "Get Lost" might be more useful to all of us. It was a fair question from a guy trying to learn. Do a google to read Kenneth’s (not Keith’s) intro post from 28 January. Then an apology might be nice, although unexpected. Alan
Response:
Unfortunately, many posters appear to be ill-mannered and just plain mean-spirited. Their comments are usually worthless.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all >> that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been >> researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I >> know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. >> Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at >Keith this is not a place to sell your ares or push alternatives to SAFE >sugar substitutes by saying they are unhealthy. >In a word or two Get Lost. > Hi Ronnie. > Believe it or not I generally agree with you and value what you say – > although I don’t often post that. I doubt that you care anyway. > I also have no time or sympathy for spam. > But I’m a little sick of the automatic knee-jerk reactions some > legitimate posters get. Not all of us have the experience and > knowledge of past flames and wars here. A little polite background on > that history instead of "Get Lost" might be more useful to all of us. > It was a fair question from a guy trying to learn. Do a google to > read Kenneth’s (not Keith’s) intro post from 28 January. Then an > apology might be nice, although unexpected. > Alan
Response:
Thanks Al, This post was so informative that I’ve saved it for future reference, I hope you don’t mind. Annette
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all >> that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been >> researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I >> know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. >> Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at >> http://www.organicfood.co.uk/inspiration/tenways_sugar.html: >> 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with >> negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum >> disease. >> 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low >> in calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights >> gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning. >> 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of >> calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b >> vitamins and minerals. >> 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the >> calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, >> and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old. >> 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is >> often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from >> the tea tree. >> 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very >> high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness >> is due to the same molecules as sugar. >> 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the >> blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or >> spreads, often organically grown. >> 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, >> millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B >> vitamins. >> 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is >> actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of >> calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly. >> 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to >> raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so >unhealthy. >> Best, >> Kenneth > A quick look at the list suggests that diabetics can find some > alternative "natural" sweeteners that could solve a lot of our problems. > However, to an organic chemist, this list isn’t as delightful as it might > seem. These sweeteners are either based on fructose, which is considered > especially unhealthy for diabetics, or glucose which raises our bG. > Many of them add a bit of flavor to the sweetened food, and tend to reduce > the rate at which they raise our bG. If you can "cut the dose" because of > superior flavor, or if your impaired glucose metabolism can keep up with > the retarded release of glucose into the blood, then some of the substitutes > will do well for you. However, none of them are the "magic bullet" which > will let us casually eat "naturally-sweetened" desserts while avoiding > augmenting our insulin in order to do so. > 1. Fructose: At first glance, fructose sounds like an ideal sweetener > since it raises bG so slowly. However, the latest findings on fructose > indicate that it is bad for normies, and very bad for Insulin Resistant > folks. It degrades the already poor T2 lipid profiles. > http://www.mendosa.com/diabetes_update_28.htm > "The organization’s (ADA) new statement, which is in the January 2002 issue > of Diabetes Care and available on-line at no charge at > http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/1/202, for the first > time, however, says that we should avoid fructose other than that which > occurs naturally in fruit. This is in spite of the fact that fructose causes > less of a rise in blood glucose than sugar. Specifically, its glycemic index > is 32 (where white bread = 100), while table sugar (sucrose) has a GI of 92. > Then, why avoid fructose? Because "fructose may adversely effect plasma > lipids," the ADA says. . . > . . .While the new statement didn’t cite sources for the effect of fructose > on lipids, they are easily found. One person who has campaigned vigorously > against fructose for years is Nancy Appleton, the author of Lick the Sugar > Habit (Garden City Park, N.Y.: Avery Publishing Group, 1996). Ms. Appleton > writes on page 90 of her book: > Dr. J. Hallfrisch studied cholesterol and triglyceride levels and found that > fructose, unfortunately, caused a general increase in both the total serum > cholesterol level and the low-density lipoprotein fraction of cholesterol in > most subjects. The triglyceride levels also rose significantly, especially > in those persons whose blood sugar levels rise higher than normal when they > eat sugar. It was concluded that high levels of dietary fructose can produce > undesirable changes in blood lipid levels, which are associated with heart > disease. . . ." > (BTW: Quentin has found this statement repeated in very reputable > scientific journals) > 2. Barley Syrup is essentially Maltose. Maltose is two molecules of > glucose stuck together. It splits in the digestive system and enters our > bodies as glucose. Its effect on bG is going to be a function of how fast > your digestive system processes the maltose, and the amount you feel is > necessary to add to food to produce the desired sweetness. > 3. Table Sugar: Sucrose > Sucrose is a molecule containing one molecule of glucose and one molecule of > fructose stuck together. It is split in our digestive systems to form a mix > of 50% glucose and 50% fructose. One could argue that the worst thing table > sugar does to a diabetic is load us with all that fructose. > 4. Honey is a mixture of fructose, glucose and a little bit of maltose and > sucrose (table sugar).
http://www.ento.vt.edu/~fell/apiculture/HoneyComposition/honey_compo sition.h – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> tm > Fructose 38%, Glucose 31%, Maltose 7% sucrose ~1.2 > As such, it contains about as much fructose as table sugar (that 7% maltose > ends up as glucose) and is just as hazardous to our lipid profiles. > 5. Maple syrup is mostly "table sugar" dissolved in water with a few > flavoring ingredients. > http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/b856_77.html: > Sucrose 90-100% , glucose 0-10% > 6. Molasses is mostly sucrose with a bit of glucose and fructose > http://www.rhhall.ie/bulletins/molasses_4.htm > 7. Amazake is made by breaking down the starch in brown rice to form > sugars. Since starch is essentially a polymer of glucose, I would guess > that breaking down the starch produces glucose, maltose, and the higher > polymers, i.e. a process similar to the manufacture of barley syrup. Nearly > all of the starch break-down produces produce glucose in the digestive > system. Again, like barley syrup, the rise in bG is a function of how fast > your digestive system splits the glucose out, and how much you feel is > necessary to add to your meal to produce the desired sweetness. > 8. Fruit concentrates are essentially mixtures of glucose, fructose and > sucrose. > http://www.dorway.com/natsweet.html > 9. Fructo-oligosaccharides are non-digestiable. Thus they have some > similarities to Splenda in that they sweeten without raising bG. However, > they are known to produce gas, bloating and diarrhea. They are considered > more of a supplement to improve the mix of gut bacteria when taken in small > doses. As such, they are a bit pricey. (U.S. $0.20 /gram)
http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=1 29 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 10. Stevia: Any mention of stevia tends to start arguments. Note that is > banned for use as a sweetener in the U.S., Canada and E.U. > http://www.trutinadulcem.com/stevia_update.htm > The E.U. has looked at petitions to approve Stevia many a time, but has not > removed the ban, e.g. > http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/webpage/stevia > The most potent argument is: > ". . .The data considered by the Committee indicated that the extract has > the potential to produce adverse effects in the male reproductive system > that could affect fertility and that a metabolite produced by the human gut > microflora, steviol, is genotoxic (ie. damages DNA). . ." > No easy answers, but remember: "If it were easy, they would cut our pay." > Regards > Old Al
— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Response:
cc’d by email Ken, you have been scammed Stevia is a poison Artificial sweeteners are not You have bought the Betty Martini line, hook line and sinker. DO NOT PUSH SCAMS ON THE NEWSGROUP Your posting history shows that you are probably not a troll, just a VERY misguided person
<martini droppings snipped>
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all > that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been > researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I > know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. Could > I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at > http://www.organicfood.co.uk/inspiration/tenways_sugar.html: > 1. Stevia is a herb that is 300 times sweeter than sugar, with > negligible calories. It’s also believed to reduce tooth decay and gum > disease. > 2. Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) granules are mildly sweet and low in > calories. FOS stimulates bifido bacteria in the gut, which fights > gastro-intestinal infections and food poisoning. > 3. Barley syrup is as sweet as sugar with the same amount of > calories, but raises blood sugar more gently. It also contains b > vitamins and minerals. > 4. Maple syrup is delicious and sweet, with just over half the > calories of sugar. It contains small amounts of vitamins and minerals, > and is made from the sap of maple trees over forty years old. > 5. Honey has less calories than sugar, but is almost as sweet. It is > often antibiotic, especially manuka honey which is made with pollen from > the tea tree. > 6. Blackstrap molasses is a by-product of sugar refining. It’s very > high in iron and has less calories than sugar. However, it’s sweetness > is due to the same molecules as sugar. > 7. Fruit concentrates are lower in calories than sugar and raise the > blood sugar more gently. You can get fruit concentrates as liquids or > spreads, often organically grown. > 8. Amazake is very low in calories and is made by fermenting rice, > millet or quinoa. It’s a traditional food from Japan, and is high in B > vitamins. > 9. Fructose is marketed as a natural alternative to sugar, but is > actually manufactured from industrial glucose. It has the same amount of > calories as sugar, but does raise blood sugar very slowly. > 10. Glucose has more calories than sugar and is the quickest way to > raise your blood sugar level. It is for this reason that it is so > unhealthy. > Best, > Kenneth
To all, thanks for the replies and accept my apologies for posting such an inappropriate topic. I had no idea that this was such a touchy topic. I was genuinely searching for a better alternative to chemically altered sweeteners, and thought that this group would provide honest answers to the validity of these listed. I’m certainly not affiliated with any kind of commercial organization trying to sell or push these alternatives on people, and regret that I may have been labled with that image in the newsgroup. Nor have I purchased, used, or invested in any of these in any way. That was my whole point to posting the list here for feedback before going down any road. It was not my intention to push, instigate, or otherwise promote anything that could be considered a scam on this newsgroup. That being said, thanks very much to oldal for the informative breakdown. It’s much appreciated. Seems like artificial is the way to go for now. I’ll avoid posting anything similar in the future. Best, Kenneth
Response:
> Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at > all?
Hello, The college clinic is in the process of helping. I’ve been going back and forth between a few of their ‘hospitals’ for weeks now. Apparently the ear infection is cleared up, but I have a sinus cold now. Unfortunately, I’m still getting dizzy and nobody seems to know why. Each time I see the doctors I raise my concerns about it, but they just kind of look at my paperwork, have a general puzzled look on their face, and blow it off. They tell me to check my blood sugar whenever it happens, and I do, but it doesn’t really seem to correspond to anything. It could be high or low or good. It’s been varying pretty greatly as of late though. The other day 2 hours after lunch it was 52, and I must have eaten too much to bring it up (4 or 5 peppermints and a small burrito), because by supper it was exactly 300. Good thing is that I’ll be actually going to the diabetic clinic on the 10th. I finally got the proper referrals and an appointment set up. Every encouragement they have for is that I’ll be able to get many if not all of my medications on their financial aid programs. I’m very much looking forward to that help. I did go to an asthma clinic this past Monday. The asthma is something that I’ve put on the back burner because of the seriousness of the diabetes, but apparently I’m taking my rescue inhaler too much. They gave me a prescription for Advair, which I haven’t got filled yet (waiting on the financial help that I’ll be applying for when I go to the diabetic clinic). Any experiences here on whether or not that affects diabetes. I was thinking that the rescue inhaler could be why my pulse is so high (averages between 85-110 resting), but they told me that it usually doens’t have /that/ big of an affect on it. I don’t know what to think about it all really… I’m just kind of taking things one day at a time, and trying not to get bitter or frustrated with it all. Best, Ken
Response:
It sounds like you are doing the best you can right now. I hope the medication help comes through for you. Next time you go low try not to overtreat the hypo. Going hypo can make you hungry and crave carbs. You can eat too much carb and it sends it flying the other way. After a period of time you may see that your numbers do start to become more even without a lot of peaks and valleys. I’m glad you’re going to a diabetes education class. Some of the information you get will be good. It should teach you a lot about portions and what exactly a "small portion" really is. We are so inundated with super size everything that a lot of people have forgotten what a 1/2 cup or 1oz. portion of something looks like. Be in for some real surprises there! — c website http://www.plazaearth.com/philo
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at > all? > Hello, > The college clinic is in the process of helping. I’ve been going back > and forth between a few of their ‘hospitals’ for weeks now. Apparently > the ear infection is cleared up, but I have a sinus cold now. > Unfortunately, I’m still getting dizzy and nobody seems to know why. > Each time I see the doctors I raise my concerns about it, but they just > kind of look at my paperwork, have a general puzzled look on their face, > and blow it off. They tell me to check my blood sugar whenever it > happens, and I do, but it doesn’t really seem to correspond to anything. > It could be high or low or good. It’s been varying pretty greatly as > of late though. The other day 2 hours after lunch it was 52, and I must > have eaten too much to bring it up (4 or 5 peppermints and a small > burrito), because by supper it was exactly 300. > Good thing is that I’ll be actually going to the diabetic clinic on the > 10th. I finally got the proper referrals and an appointment set up. > Every encouragement they have for is that I’ll be able to get many if > not all of my medications on their financial aid programs. I’m very > much looking forward to that help. > I did go to an asthma clinic this past Monday. The asthma is something > that I’ve put on the back burner because of the seriousness of the > diabetes, but apparently I’m taking my rescue inhaler too much. They > gave me a prescription for Advair, which I haven’t got filled yet > (waiting on the financial help that I’ll be applying for when I go to > the diabetic clinic). Any experiences here on whether or not that > affects diabetes. I was thinking that the rescue inhaler could be why > my pulse is so high (averages between 85-110 resting), but they told me > that it usually doens’t have /that/ big of an affect on it. > I don’t know what to think about it all really… I’m just kind of > taking things one day at a time, and trying not to get bitter or > frustrated with it all. > Best, > Ken
Response:
Good, great to hear about the finanical aid. I’m begining to realize that those meters and strips are really critical. Perhaps even more so in your case. It must be tough to be on the BG roller-coaster, esp. when you have other problems. Have you tried to establish a base-line eating pattern? Same thing for breakfast, lunch, dinner? That got me going in the right direction carb wise. It helps the I’m one of those lucky ones who don’t actually care what I eat 
Here’s wishing you good news at the diabetes clinic! — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at > all? > Hello, > The college clinic is in the process of helping. I’ve been going back > and forth between a few of their ‘hospitals’ for weeks now. Apparently > the ear infection is cleared up, but I have a sinus cold now. > Unfortunately, I’m still getting dizzy and nobody seems to know why. > Each time I see the doctors I raise my concerns about it, but they just > kind of look at my paperwork, have a general puzzled look on their face, > and blow it off. They tell me to check my blood sugar whenever it > happens, and I do, but it doesn’t really seem to correspond to anything. > It could be high or low or good. It’s been varying pretty greatly as > of late though. The other day 2 hours after lunch it was 52, and I must > have eaten too much to bring it up (4 or 5 peppermints and a small > burrito), because by supper it was exactly 300. > Good thing is that I’ll be actually going to the diabetic clinic on the > 10th. I finally got the proper referrals and an appointment set up. > Every encouragement they have for is that I’ll be able to get many if > not all of my medications on their financial aid programs. I’m very > much looking forward to that help. > I did go to an asthma clinic this past Monday. The asthma is something > that I’ve put on the back burner because of the seriousness of the > diabetes, but apparently I’m taking my rescue inhaler too much. They > gave me a prescription for Advair, which I haven’t got filled yet > (waiting on the financial help that I’ll be applying for when I go to > the diabetic clinic). Any experiences here on whether or not that > affects diabetes. I was thinking that the rescue inhaler could be why > my pulse is so high (averages between 85-110 resting), but they told me > that it usually doens’t have /that/ big of an affect on it. > I don’t know what to think about it all really… I’m just kind of > taking things one day at a time, and trying not to get bitter or > frustrated with it all. > Best, > Ken
Response:
<snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->To all, thanks for the replies and accept my apologies for posting such >an inappropriate topic. I had no idea that this was such a touchy >topic. I was genuinely searching for a better alternative to chemically >altered sweeteners, and thought that this group would provide honest >answers to the validity of these listed. I’m certainly not affiliated >with any kind of commercial organization trying to sell or push these >alternatives on people, and regret that I may have been labled with that >image in the newsgroup. Nor have I purchased, used, or invested in any >of these in any way. That was my whole point to posting the list here >for feedback before going down any road. It was not my intention to >push, instigate, or otherwise promote anything that could be considered >a scam on this newsgroup. >That being said, thanks very much to oldal for the informative >breakdown. It’s much appreciated. Seems like artificial is the way to >go for now. >I’ll avoid posting anything similar in the future. >Best, >Kenneth
Hi Kenneth No apology needed. It was a legitimate question and if you hadn’t posted we would not have received Al’s reply. Feel free to ask any question you need answered. Never let a grumpy or ill-tempered response interfere with your search to beat the dragon. Your question may start a flame war or play into the hands of a troll or scammer – or it may be a critical question that directly affects your treatment of the disease. How will you know if you don’t ask? If you ask a silly question you may get embarrassed or annoy somebody. If you don’t ask an important question you may get diabetic complications. I reckon that outweighs the chance of an abusive answer. Ask whatever you like – just accept that occasionally you’ll ruffle some feathers. Nil Illegitimus Carborundum Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
Response:
>I’ve come to realize that the artificial sweeteners aren’t really all >that healthy because they are chemically altered substances. I’ve been >researching an organic kick today, and came across this link. But I >know next to nothing about how these alternatives affect diabetes. >Could I get some opinions here? Thanks! This listing was found at
none of the alternatives on the healthfood scam sight are good choices for diabetics. the sugar subs on the market (sweet-n-low, equal, aspartame) are harmless. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
Response:
: > Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at : > all? : Hello, : The college clinic is in the process of helping. I’ve been going back : and forth between a few of their ‘hospitals’ for weeks now. Apparently : the ear infection is cleared up, but I have a sinus cold now. : Unfortunately, I’m still getting dizzy and nobody seems to know why. : Each time I see the doctors I raise my concerns about it, but they just : kind of look at my paperwork, have a general puzzled look on their face, : and blow it off. They tell me to check my blood sugar whenever it : happens, and I do, but it doesn’t really seem to correspond to anything. : It could be high or low or good. It’s been varying pretty greatly as : of late though. The other day 2 hours after lunch it was 52, and I must : have eaten too much to bring it up (4 or 5 peppermints and a small : burrito), because by supper it was exactly 300. : Good thing is that I’ll be actually going to the diabetic clinic on the : 10th. I finally got the proper referrals and an appointment set up. : Every encouragement they have for is that I’ll be able to get many if : not all of my medications on their financial aid programs. I’m very : much looking forward to that help. : I did go to an asthma clinic this past Monday. The asthma is something : that I’ve put on the back burner because of the seriousness of the : diabetes, but apparently I’m taking my rescue inhaler too much. They : gave me a prescription for Advair, which I haven’t got filled yet : (waiting on the financial help that I’ll be applying for when I go to : the diabetic clinic). Any experiences here on whether or not that : affects diabetes. I was thinking that the rescue inhaler could be why : my pulse is so high (averages between 85-110 resting), but they told me : that it usually doens’t have /that/ big of an affect on it. : I don’t know what to think about it all really… I’m just kind of : taking things one day at a time, and trying not to get bitter or : frustrated with it all. : Best, : Ken sorry, but deleteing is difficult for me one handed. just one comment on advair. my non-diabetic husband took it this winter for a month for underlying asthma following a bout of pneumonia. it didn.t help and made him hoarse and unable to sing, another friend, a professional singer had the same experience. wendy
Response:
HEY, WENDY! Howse it goin? Don’t reply – I hope they gave you plenty of pain meds. Welcome back. Are you going to be able to set off a metal detector? — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) The mature man lives quietly, does good privately, assumes personal responsibility for his actions, treats others with friendliness and courtesy, finds mischief boring and keeps out of it. Without this hidden conspiracy of good will, society would not endure an hour. — Kenneth Rexroth —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : > Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic help at > : > all? > : Hello, > : The college clinic is in the process of helping. I’ve been going back > : and forth between a few of their ‘hospitals’ for weeks now. Apparently > : the ear infection is cleared up, but I have a sinus cold now. > : Unfortunately, I’m still getting dizzy and nobody seems to know why. > : Each time I see the doctors I raise my concerns about it, but they just > : kind of look at my paperwork, have a general puzzled look on their face, > : and blow it off. They tell me to check my blood sugar whenever it > : happens, and I do, but it doesn’t really seem to correspond to anything. > : It could be high or low or good. It’s been varying pretty greatly as > : of late though. The other day 2 hours after lunch it was 52, and I must > : have eaten too much to bring it up (4 or 5 peppermints and a small > : burrito), because by supper it was exactly 300. > : Good thing is that I’ll be actually going to the diabetic clinic on the > : 10th. I finally got the proper referrals and an appointment set up. > : Every encouragement they have for is that I’ll be able to get many if > : not all of my medications on their financial aid programs. I’m very > : much looking forward to that help. > : I did go to an asthma clinic this past Monday. The asthma is something > : that I’ve put on the back burner because of the seriousness of the > : diabetes, but apparently I’m taking my rescue inhaler too much. They > : gave me a prescription for Advair, which I haven’t got filled yet > : (waiting on the financial help that I’ll be applying for when I go to > : the diabetic clinic). Any experiences here on whether or not that > : affects diabetes. I was thinking that the rescue inhaler could be why > : my pulse is so high (averages between 85-110 resting), but they told me > : that it usually doens’t have /that/ big of an affect on it. > : I don’t know what to think about it all really… I’m just kind of > : taking things one day at a time, and trying not to get bitter or > : frustrated with it all. > : Best, > : Ken > sorry, but deleteing is difficult for me one handed. just one comment on > advair. my non-diabetic husband took it this winter for a month for > underlying asthma > following a bout of pneumonia. it didn.t help and made him hoarse and > unable to sing, another friend, a professional singer had the same > experience. > wendy
Response:
: HEY, WENDY! : Howse it goin? : Don’t reply – I hope they gave you plenty of pain meds. : Welcome back. : Are you going to be able to set off a metal detector? : — : t2_lurking : geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom : Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) : The mature man lives quietly, does good privately, : assumes personal responsibility for his actions, : treats others with friendliness and courtesy, : finds mischief boring and keeps out of it. : Without this hidden conspiracy of good will, : society would not endure an hour. : — Kenneth Rexroth — it is going somewhat better, the pain is much less and i actually have pain free interludes. i am trying to keep moving my shoulder a bit to help prevent frozen shoulder. i will have problems with plane travel and will have to carry a doctor’s note to show the security people. can’t you just hear them saying "hey, this lady is carrying a sword inside her arm." can’t write much yet, as my writing position is rather contorted. fighting to keep the bgs down with all the atress. i am using my prandid much more, at both lunch and dinner. am beginning to get lows after lunch, so my physical stress may well be lessening. wendy : > : > : > Hi Ken, whats the update on your situation? Did the college clinic : help at : > : > all? : > : > : Hello, : > : > : The college clinic is in the process of helping. I’ve been going back : > : and forth between a few of their ‘hospitals’ for weeks now. Apparently : > : the ear infection is cleared up, but I have a sinus cold now. : > : Unfortunately, I’m still getting dizzy and nobody seems to know why. : > : Each time I see the doctors I raise my concerns about it, but they just : > : kind of look at my paperwork, have a general puzzled look on their face, : > : and blow it off. They tell me to check my blood sugar whenever it : > : happens, and I do, but it doesn’t really seem to correspond to anything. : > : It could be high or low or good. It’s been varying pretty greatly as : > : of late though. The other day 2 hours after lunch it was 52, and I must : > : have eaten too much to bring it up (4 or 5 peppermints and a small : > : burrito), because by supper it was exactly 300. : > : > : Good thing is that I’ll be actually going to the diabetic clinic on the : > : 10th. I finally got the proper referrals and an appointment set up. : > : Every encouragement they have for is that I’ll be able to get many if : > : not all of my medications on their financial aid programs. I’m very : > : much looking forward to that help. : > : > : I did go to an asthma clinic this past Monday. The asthma is something : > : that I’ve put on the back burner because of the seriousness of the : > : diabetes, but apparently I’m taking my rescue inhaler too much. They : > : gave me a prescription for Advair, which I haven’t got filled yet : > : (waiting on the financial help that I’ll be applying for when I go to : > : the diabetic clinic). Any experiences here on whether or not that : > : affects diabetes. I was thinking that the rescue inhaler could be why : > : my pulse is so high (averages between 85-110 resting), but they told me : > : that it usually doens’t have /that/ big of an affect on it. : > : > : I don’t know what to think about it all really… I’m just kind of : > : taking things one day at a time, and trying not to get bitter or : > : frustrated with it all. : > : > : Best, : > : Ken : > : > sorry, but deleteing is difficult for me one handed. just one comment on : > advair. my non-diabetic husband took it this winter for a month for : > underlying asthma : > following a bout of pneumonia. it didn.t help and made him hoarse and : > unable to sing, another friend, a professional singer had the same : > experience. : > : > wendy : > : >
Response:
> good luck with it! > I’m going to have to assume a couple of things….. the pressures you are > reading are low side pressures?? and that the old compressor was replaced > with no other work (other than the recharge) to the system?? > When a compressor fails internally there’s all kinds of little bits and > pieces that used to be compressor that infiltrate the rest of the system. > I > think that you’ll find (at the very least) that the orofice tube and > condenser are both plugged off. If you are real lucky, none of this crap > has > made it around to your new compressor (the viscious circle starts here). > I’m not sure who is training folks to avoid servicing the rest of the > system > when replacing a pooched compressor but I think you are seeing the > validity > of "cutting costs" in this manner. When I replace a compressor because of > an internal failure, the car gets a new condenser, orofice tube and > receiver/drier…… there is no way on Gods green earth that I am about > to > risk giving away free parts and labour because I didn’t do what should > have > been done. Additionally, the evaporater core is back flushed as are all > the > hoses (though I have changed hoses with mufflers in them). If all of the > old > stuff isn’t spotless clean inside, we are only rolling the dice to see how > long before we repeat the process……. > We need to remember that these compressors aren’t compressing liquid, they > are compressing a gas and, as such, their internal tolerances are really > very fine. It doesn’t take much wear to have a system that just doesn’t > perform well enough to keep most customers happy. Like I keep saying, I’m > spendy…. very spendy – but after the sticker-shock wears off, my > customers > are happy. > Back to your problem…. if I were presented with your car in it’s current > state, I would replace the "usual" parts and, quite likely, the > compressor…. in my mind, it is now suspect and I would have some real > concerns about offering any kind of warranty (or even releasing the car) > with what amounts to a ticking time bomb under the hood. > If you will be performing the work yourself, I’d suggest replacing the > "usual" parts and flushing the remainder of the system very, very well. > Ensure that the correct amount of oil is added and evac/recharge. > I realize that this is an old car and that pouring this much money into it > may not be financially feasable, but it makes less sense to waste money > through inadequate repairs. > HTH > > Hey, Jim ( or anyone with a good answer ), > > My A/C is blowing hot. It blew a compressor, that has since been > > replaced. The unit has been evac’d and had 2.5 pounds of R134A put in > the > > system. Why is it still blowing hot? Do I need to be looking at the > > expansion valve ( not real sure where to look for that ) or some other > > similar item I’m apparently missing? I know the pressure should be > reading > > about 40-45 PSI, but it’s showing a pressure of 100 PSI. If I bleed the > > pressure off to bring the pressure down it doesn’t help. There are no > leaks > > in the system, but I’m afraid that if it continues at higher pressures I > > will eventually burn up this compressor ( or worse ). Chilton’s and > Hayne’s > > both say to replace the dryer ( accumulator ) when the compressor is > > replaced, but experience and training in the past has taught me that > this > is > > not necessary, as long as the system is evac’d and fresh charge of oil > and > > freon. > > Breathing issues aside, it is just plain uncomfortable to drive this > > bugger at this time of year without A/C, and it does make it easier for > me > > to breathe ( asthma ) while driving. Prior to the compressor going > south, > it > > was a right chilly A/C unit.. What am I missing?