Mr. Asthma

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Question:

Ok… I had to go back to my doctor.  It was getting to the rediculous stage where I couldn’t breathe too good even with preventer/reliever treatment. Sinus infection, chest infection, both contributing to "uncontrolled asthma". I’m taking symbicort 200/6 (comination of pulmicort and oxis), bricanyl for reliever, pseudoephedrine to dry the sinuses, erythromycin for the chest/sinus, paracetemol for unbelievable pain in my throat and head… And I’m not doing a lot better.  I’m having times where I cannot breathe, where my chest feels like it’s only moving 2mm when I breathe in, and even at the good times I have shocking low lung capacity… coughing all day and most of the night (ie very very tired)… and no appetite. Until recently I had a good diet, I was exercising regularly and life was pretty good.  Now I can’t eat and so can’t get the balanced diet, can’t exercise, and can’t sleep. I am loathe to go back to my doctor as it is costing so much… but I’ve been like this for 3 weeks now. Any suggestions?

Response:

>Sinus infection, chest infection, both contributing to "uncontrolled >asthma".

Bacteria , virus’ use iron to survive .. The immune system uses iron as the very basis of its work. When the body is invaded the immune system sequesters/removes iron out of the blood and locks it away so the invader cannot access it and survive. It its weakened state the pathogen/invader can be attacked and killed by the t-cells/white cells. When there is too much iron in the body the body cannot lock the iron away and when it tries the iron spills back out where the pathogen can still access it. This spilled iron is called ‘free’ iron / NTBI – non protein bound iron/ NPBI – no protein bound iron which forms the LIP – labile iron pool. >I’m taking symbicort 200/6 (comination of pulmicort and oxis), bricanyl for >reliever, pseudoephedrine to dry the sinuses, erythromycin for the >chest/sinus, paracetemol for unbelievable pain in my throat and head…

Erythromycin binds up iron .. the same as the immune system. This is taken right from the iron overload list .. and this member speaks to the result or added side effect of removal of the elevated iron in their body. Beneficial Effect I don’t know if it is a coincidence, but  after several phlebs, my asthma and allergy symptoms became better and have  nearly cleared up.   I was taking proventil, intal, vancenase, theophylline and beclovent daily.  I no longer take theophylline, proventil and have cut back on the rest 90%.  I have not had an attack, can smell food, do not have cotton mouth during the night for the first time in years and my wife says that I NO LONGER SNORE.  It’s probably a coincidence, but I like to think of it as a possible positive side affect. >I am loathe to go back to my doctor as it is costing so much… but I’ve >been like this for 3 weeks now. >Any suggestions?

Well you could always tell your doctor you got a phone call and were told your immediate family told you you are to be tested for elevated iron levels in the body .. which is known to kill you in the long run .. which is preceded by a long protracted horrible death .. and that you hope to god that HE … didn’t miss it all this time .. and has been causing all this grief in YOU because of HIS inability to do his job. But that is just thinking out loud .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Tom, you are off the mark badly here.  You know how I feel about this.  Iron is needed for survival.  As one who has mal absorption problems because of cd, I get tested constantly.  Everyone needs Iron in them or the result is anemia.  Iron does not kill white cells or t-cells for if that was the case when my white cells were over a million and I needed to be transfused my iron would have prevented this.  Too much Iron like anything else is not good for anyone.  But what you are saying here is, sorry, Bull.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Sinus infection, chest infection, both contributing to "uncontrolled >asthma". > Bacteria , virus’ use iron to survive .. > The immune system uses iron as the very basis of its work. > When the body is invaded the immune system sequesters/removes iron out of the > blood and locks it away so the invader cannot access it and survive. > It its weakened state the pathogen/invader can be attacked and killed by the > t-cells/white cells. > When there is too much iron in the body the body cannot lock the iron away and > when it tries the iron spills back out where the pathogen can still access it. > This spilled iron is called ‘free’ iron / NTBI – non protein bound iron/ NPBI – > no protein bound iron which forms the LIP – labile iron pool. >I’m taking symbicort 200/6 (comination of pulmicort and oxis), bricanyl for >reliever, pseudoephedrine to dry the sinuses, erythromycin for the >chest/sinus, paracetemol for unbelievable pain in my throat and head… > Erythromycin binds up iron .. the same as the immune system. > This is taken right from the iron overload list .. and this member speaks to > the result or added side effect of removal of the elevated iron in their body. > Beneficial Effect > I don’t know if it is a coincidence, but  after several phlebs, my asthma > and allergy symptoms became better and have  nearly cleared up. > I was taking proventil, intal, vancenase, theophylline and > beclovent daily.  I no longer take theophylline, proventil and have cut > back on the rest 90%.  I have not had an attack, can smell food, do not have > cotton mouth during the night for the first time in years and my wife says > that I NO LONGER SNORE.  It’s probably a coincidence, but I like to think of > it as a possible positive side affect. >I am loathe to go back to my doctor as it is costing so much… but I’ve >been like this for 3 weeks now. >Any suggestions? > Well you could always tell your doctor you got a phone call and were told your > immediate family told you you are to be tested for elevated iron levels in the > body .. which is known to kill you in the long run .. which is preceded by a > long protracted horrible death .. and that you hope to god that HE … didn’t > miss it all this time .. and has been causing all this grief in YOU because of > HIS inability to do his job. > But that is just thinking out loud .. > Who loves ya. > Tom > Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman > Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

>Tom, you are off the mark badly here.  You know how I feel about this.  Iron >is needed for survival.

Yep ..  >As one who has mal absorption problems because of >cd, I get tested constantly.

You have YET to post the results of your serum transferrin and ferritin tests .. so I will assume your doctor does the ‘general test of your blood’ and thusly any ‘anemia’ you ’say’ you have .. is strictly from your doctors’ .. viewpoint .. with blinders on .  >Everyone needs Iron in them or the result is >anemia.

The chance of anyone especially a man actually being ‘iron deficient’ .. is very small .. UNLESS one is bleeding internally or has as you say .. a malabsorption problem. And as articles previously forwarded .. vitamin C seems to be an alternative to iron .. as it frees up the iron in the body which the body seems not to be able to access. As in the cases where there is KNOWN iron on board .. and iron infusion does not work. Sickle cell and kidney dialysis patients. Anemia is not always able to be treated with iron .. ? It simply does not respond ..? H pylori infection .. and gingivitis BOTH allow one to ‘appear’ to be iron deficent but the anemia is one of .. ‘anemia of chronic disease’ .. which is the immune system locking the iron away from the invader. Vitamin E deficiency causes ‘anemia’ as does many other deficiencies APPEAR as ‘anemia’ and unless your doctor ‘goes the extra mile’ .. his opinion is .. worthless. Iron supplements / treatment have been known to induce .. a ‘hastened death’ in aids patients DUE TO the doctors giving iron to people who are in the throes of .. anemia of chronic disease and the iron fed to them .. kills them DUE TO the pathogen NOW being able to access the iron which WAS .. locked away. >Iron does not kill white cells or t-cells for if that was the case >when my white cells were over a million and I needed to be transfused my >iron would have prevented this.

Iron does not kill T-cells/ white cells .. it just adds more food for the enemy .. and the white blood cells cannot mount an effective attack against an army / invader which outnumbers them. >Too much Iron like anything else is not >good for anyone.  But what you are saying here is, sorry, Bull.  UM MOM >Susan

I disagree .. Oct;28(10):930-6   Lower numbers of erythrocytes and lower levels of hemoglobin in periodontitispatients compared to control subjects.    Hutter JW, Velden Uv U, Varoufaki A, Huffels RA, Hoek FJ, Loos BG       Department of Periodontology, Academic Center for Dentistry Amsterdam   (ACTA); Department of Clinical Chemistry, Academic Medical Center   (AMC), Amsterdam, The Netherlands.      [Medline record in process]      BACKGROUND: Anemia of chronic disease (ACD) is defined as the anemia   occurring in chronic infections and inflammatory conditions, that is   not due to marrow deficiencies or other diseases and in the presence   of adequate iron stores and vitamins. The purpose of the present study   was to investigate whether periodontitis patients show signs of   anemia. METHOD: 39 patients with severe periodontitis, 71 patients   with moderate periodontitis and 42 controls, all with good general   health, participated in this study. The mean age of all groups was 42   years. Several red blood cell parameters were determined from   peripheral blood samples. RESULTS: Overall data analysis indicated   that periodontitis patients have a lower hematocrit, lower numbers of   erythrocytes, lower hemoglobin levels and higher erythrocyte   sedimentation rates. These results were adjusted for the following   possible confounders: gender, age, smoking, ethnicity and level of   education. Further, more periodontitis patients (23%) than controls   (7%), had hemoglobin levels below the normal reference range.   CONCLUSIONS: The present study provides further evidence that   periodontitis has systemic effects and that periodontitis may tend   towards anemia. This phenomenon may be explained by a depressed   erythropoiesis.      PMID: 11686811, UI: 21543364     pylori in the oral cavity: high prevalence and great DNAdiversity.    Song Q, Spahr A, Schmid RM, Adler G, Bode G       Department of Internal Medicine I, University of Ulm, Germany.      To test the hypothesis that Helicobacter pylori may be transmitted by   the oral-oral route, we applied nested PCR and DNA sequencing to   detect and analyze H. pylori DNA in the oral cavity of 20 adult   patients undergoing endoscopy. Dental plaques of molars, premolars,   and incisors and saliva were collected. Additional paraffin-embedded   gastric biopsies were analyzed in four patients. Two sets of highly   sensitive and specific primers, EHC-U/EHC-L and ET5-U/ET-5L directed   to a 860-bp fragment of H. pylori DNA, were used in the nested PCR.   Eight patients had an active infection in the stomach determined with   the [13C]urea breath test and the other 12 were negative. Nested PCR   showed that all 20 subjects (100%) were positive for H. pylori in the   oral cavity. DNA sequencing demonstrated that all tested PCR products   of the expected size from the oral samples have more than 97% identity   with that from H. pylori type strain ATCC 43629. However, sequences   differed in oral samples from different subjects as well as between   different oral locations and gastric biopsies within the same   individuals. In conclusion, the oral cavity may be a permanent   reservoir for H. pylori and can harbor multiple H. pylori strains at   the same time.      PMID: 11215732, UI: 21083431     bacteria/anemia/children      Scand J Gastroenterol 2001 Jul;36(7):701-5   Helicobacter pylori and iron deficiency anaemia in children.    Ashorn M, Ruuska T, Makipernaa A       Dept. of Pediatrics, Tampere University Hospital, BACKGROUND: Both iron deficiency anaemia and Helicobacter pylori   infection are rare in developed countries. A possible connection has   been suggested between these two diseases and our aim was to define   the clinical picture and to study the effect of bacterial eradication   in H. pylori colonized children with severe anaemia. METHODS: Eight   children with iron deficiency anaemia refractory to iron   supplementation were examined with gastroscopy because of suspicion of   H. pylori infection. Anaemia was treated with oral ferrous sulphate.   Two patients needed blood transfusions. Eradication therapy was given   either with combination of colloidal bismuth subcitrate and   metronidazole or with omeprazole, clarithromycin and amoxycillin.   Eradication was confirmed by urea breath test 4 weeks post-treatment.   RESULTS: H. pylori infection was confirmed histologically and   microbiologically in all children, who also presented with chronic,   active gastritis. Bacteria were successfully eradicated in 7/8   patients. Correction of haemoglobin values was observed   post-treatment, iron stores still being deficient at control in 4/8   children. CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that H. pylori might have a   role in causing iron deficiency anaemia in school-age children.   Screening for H. pylori should be extended to cover those patients   with other clinical manifestations than symptoms from gastrointestinal   tract.      PMID: 11444468, UI: 21337369 Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Tom I have posted this before but I will again. Iron and total iron binding capacity Iron total 18 Low Iron binding capacity 536 high %saturation 3 low Is this all that you are needing to see?  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tom, you are off the mark badly here.  You know how I feel about this. Iron >is needed for survival. > Yep .. >  >As one who has mal absorption problems because of >cd, I get tested constantly. > You have YET to post the results of your serum transferrin and ferritin tests > .. so I will assume your doctor does the ‘general test of your blood’ and > thusly any ‘anemia’ you ’say’ you have .. is strictly from your doctors’ .. > viewpoint .. with blinders on . >  >Everyone needs Iron in them or the result is >anemia. > The chance of anyone especially a man actually being ‘iron deficient’ .. is > very small .. UNLESS one is bleeding internally or has as you say .. a > malabsorption problem. > And as articles previously forwarded .. vitamin C seems to be an alternative to > iron .. as it frees up the iron in the body which the body seems not to be able > to access. > As in the cases where there is KNOWN iron on board .. and iron infusion does > not work. > Sickle cell and kidney dialysis patients. > Anemia is not always able to be treated with iron .. ? > It simply does not respond ..? > H pylori infection .. and gingivitis BOTH allow one to ‘appear’ to be iron > deficent but the anemia is one of .. ‘anemia of chronic disease’ .. which is > the immune system locking the iron away from the invader. > Vitamin E deficiency causes ‘anemia’ as does many other deficiencies APPEAR as > ‘anemia’ and unless your doctor ‘goes the extra mile’ .. his opinion is .. > worthless. > Iron supplements / treatment have been known to induce .. a ‘hastened death’ in > aids patients DUE TO the doctors giving iron to people who are in the throes of > .. anemia of chronic disease and the iron fed to them .. kills them DUE TO the > pathogen NOW being able to access the iron which WAS .. locked away. >Iron does not kill white cells or t-cells for if that was the case >when my white cells were over a million and I needed to be transfused my >iron would have prevented this. > Iron does not kill T-cells/ white cells .. it just adds more food for the enemy > .. and the white blood cells cannot mount an effective attack against an army / > invader which outnumbers them. >Too much Iron like anything else is not >good for anyone.  But what you are saying here is, sorry, Bull.  UM MOM >Susan > I disagree .. 2001 > Oct;28(10):930-6   Lower numbers of erythrocytes and lower levels of hemoglobin > in periodontitispatients compared to control subjects.    Hutter JW, Velden Uv > U, Varoufaki A, Huffels RA, Hoek FJ, Loos BG       Department of > Periodontology, Academic Center for Dentistry Amsterdam   (ACTA); Department of > Clinical Chemistry, Academic Medical Center   (AMC), Amsterdam, The > Netherlands.      [Medline record in process]      BACKGROUND: Anemia of > chronic disease (ACD) is defined as the anemia   occurring in chronic > infections and inflammatory conditions, that is   not due to marrow > deficiencies or other diseases and in the presence   of adequate iron stores > and vitamins. The purpose of the present study   was to investigate whether > periodontitis patients show signs of   anemia. METHOD: 39 patients with severe > periodontitis, 71 patients   with moderate periodontitis and 42 controls, all > with good general   health, participated in this study. The mean age of all > groups was 42   years. Several red blood cell parameters were determined from > peripheral blood samples. RESULTS: Overall data analysis indicated   that > periodontitis patients have a lower hematocrit, lower numbers of > erythrocytes, lower hemoglobin levels and higher erythrocyte sedimentation > rates. These results were adjusted for the following   possible confounders: > gender, age, smoking, ethnicity and level of   education. Further, more > periodontitis patients (23%) than controls   (7%), had hemoglobin levels below > the normal reference range.   CONCLUSIONS: The present study provides further > evidence that   periodontitis has systemic effects and that periodontitis may > tend   towards anemia. This phenomenon may be explained by a depressed > erythropoiesis.      PMID: 11686811, UI: 21543364 Helicobacter > pylori in the oral cavity: high prevalence and great DNAdiversity.    Song Q, > Spahr A, Schmid RM, Adler G, Bode G       Department of Internal Medicine I, > University of Ulm, Germany.      To test the hypothesis that Helicobacter > pylori may be transmitted by   the oral-oral route, we applied nested PCR and > DNA sequencing to   detect and analyze H. pylori DNA in the oral cavity of 20 > adult   patients undergoing endoscopy. Dental plaques of molars, premolars, > and incisors and saliva were collected. Additional paraffin-embedded gastric > biopsies were analyzed in four patients. Two sets of highly   sensitive and > specific primers, EHC-U/EHC-L and ET5-U/ET-5L directed   to a 860-bp fragment > of H. pylori DNA, were used in the nested PCR.   Eight patients had an active > infection in the stomach determined with   the [13C]urea breath test and the > other 12 were negative. Nested PCR   showed that all 20 subjects (100%) were > positive for H. pylori in the   oral cavity. DNA sequencing demonstrated that > all tested PCR products   of the expected size from the oral samples have more > than 97% identity   with that from H. pylori type strain ATCC 43629. However, > sequences   differed in oral samples from different subjects as well as between >   different oral locations and gastric biopsies within the same individuals. > In conclusion, the oral cavity may be a permanent   reservoir for H. pylori and > can harbor multiple H. pylori strains at   the same time.      PMID: 11215732, > UI: 21083431 > bacteria/anemia/children      Scand J Gastroenterol 2001 Jul;36(7):701-5 > Helicobacter pylori and iron deficiency anaemia in children.    Ashorn M, > Ruuska T, Makipernaa A       Dept. of Pediatrics, Tampere University Hospital, > BACKGROUND: Both iron deficiency anaemia and Helicobacter pylori infection > are rare in developed countries. A possible connection has   been suggested > between these two diseases and our aim was to define   the clinical picture and > to study the effect of bacterial eradication   in H. pylori colonized children > with severe anaemia. METHODS: Eight   children with iron deficiency anaemia > refractory to iron   supplementation were examined with gastroscopy because of > suspicion of   H. pylori infection. Anaemia was treated with oral ferrous > sulphate.   Two patients needed blood transfusions. Eradication therapy was > given   either with combination of colloidal bismuth subcitrate and > metronidazole or with omeprazole, clarithromycin and amoxycillin. Eradication > was confirmed by urea breath test 4 weeks post-treatment.   RESULTS: H. pylori > infection was confirmed histologically and   microbiologically in all children, > who also presented with chronic,   active gastritis. Bacteria were successfully > eradicated in 7/8   patients. Correction of haemoglobin values was observed > post-treatment, iron stores still being deficient at control in 4/8 children. > CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that H. pylori might have a   role in causing > iron deficiency anaemia in school-age children.   Screening for H. pylori > should be extended to cover those patients   with other clinical manifestations > than symptoms from gastrointestinal   tract.      PMID: 11444468, UI: 21337369 > Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman > Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response: