Mr. Asthma

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I was referring to this > >"Environmental Illness includes > >> Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), > >> Fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), Porphyria, Allergy and > >> Asthma." > >This is an asthma newsgroup, isn’t it? > >and I did say "FWIW" and even if you personally don’t think it’s worth > >posting/reading, others here might. > Lets see: With the exception of asthma and allergy how many of the > illnesses described above have diagnosing criteria which can rule out > any particular person from having that disease? >Porphyia – hematology (it’s a genetic blood disorder) >FM – ask rheumatolists why they’re making so much $$ diagnosing this.  If you

I’ll accept your comments about porphyia and FM as being diseases where it is possible to objectively determine if the patient does, or does not have the disease. >CFS – see Dr. Gabe Mirkin’s view on that – it’s the most reasonable I’ve >seen. >http://www.drmirkin.com/ (search on Fibromyalgia or Chronic fatigue) >He has had some success with long-term use of antibiotics. What’s that say >about physicians missing the boat on subclinical infections and diagnosing FM >iinstead?

Equally probable is the possibility that his results are actually meaningless. >With the new availability of testing individuals for synthetic chemicals, >perhaps MCS and GWS will soon be provable (to your satisfaction) also. >Besides, the same reactions can be invoked in lab animals.  Are you implying >that lab rats are smart enough to be hypochondriacs?

Before you can test people foe GWS you need to demonstrate that the disease actually exists.  Right now, literally anything can (and is) being diagnosed as GWS.  For example, I was diagnosed as having GWS in 1996 (instead of asthma) based on nothing other than the fact that I had developed some sort of medical condition after the Gulf.  needless to say I realized that I was not going to get competent medical care from the Veterans Administration and have stuck with real doctors since. The really, really bad thing is that the GWS people are actually harming veterans.  As a result of the GWS hype, people who suffered psychological injuries as a result of their service are not getting appropriate treatment.  The ‘GWS advocates’ had congress force the army to cease providing psychological treatment to veterans with "GWS" who were actually displaying symptoms of having suffered a psychological injury. GWS is a disease that only exists because special interest groups find that its existence suits their agenda.  Their actions have nothing to do with supporting and assisting veterans who were injured during the course of their service. >Run a search on "factitious asthma".  There are some fakes in every disease, >aren’t there, Colin?

Yes.  But a careful doctor should be able to spot the vast majority. >J >PS http://www.heartinstitute.net/wa/asmawky.shtml >Asthma symptoms may include a chronic cough, wheezing, chest tightness, and >shortness of breath, especially on                    exertion.<snip> >I’d hazard a guess that 90% of people (who wanted to) could fake these >symptoms and get an instant diagnosis of asthma.  They probably wouldn’t even >be referred to a specialist but promptly given a script for asthma meds. >Go ahead, take ten of your least healthy-looking men/women, dress them like >they come from low socio-economic background (don’t say what they do for a >living), tell them to give it their best shot to fake these symptoms and go >through an HMO and see what happens.

If the doctor was not really trying to provide quality care, I can see how this would happen.  I personally refuse to deal with a doctor if I suspect that he (or she) is doing a sloppy job or telling me things because they think that’s I want to hear. There is no ‘Army of One’ in the word: ‘Team’

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >See near the bottom for relevance to these two newsgroups. >> >FWIW >> What relevance? >I was referring to this >"Environmental Illness includes >> Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), >> Fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), Porphyria, Allergy and >> Asthma." >This is an asthma newsgroup, isn’t it? >and I did say "FWIW" and even if you personally don’t think it’s worth >posting/reading, others here might. > Lets see: With the exception of asthma and allergy how many of the > illnesses described above have diagnosing criteria which can rule out > any particular person from having that disease?

Porphyia – hematology (it’s a genetic blood disorder) FM – ask rheumatolists why they’re making so much $$ diagnosing this.  If you looked beyond your little world and read some of the AMF posts, you’d realize that in more than 90% of the cases, people have been given this diagnosis because there are no cures for the many conditions that the people have (bone/muscle damage due to on-the-job or vehicular injuries, repetitive strain injuries, surgeries gone wrong, misdiagnosis, drug and/or alcohol abuse, too many health problems and either the patient isn’t trying to ameliorate and/or the doctor has no suggestion, other then to shut them up with pain meds and/or anti-depressants which are the standard med to knock people out so they can sleep) but the bottom line is it’s a "mumbo-jumbo" diagnosis meaning "pain and poor sleep". That’s not hypochondria.  Pain can’t be measured but poor sleep sure can.  Heck, even people with cancer are mentioning FM (pain and poor sleep) CFS – see Dr. Gabe Mirkin’s view on that – it’s the most reasonable I’ve seen. http://www.drmirkin.com/ (search on Fibromyalgia or Chronic fatigue) He has had some success with long-term use of antibiotics. What’s that say about physicians missing the boat on subclinical infections and diagnosing FM iinstead? With the new availability of testing individuals for synthetic chemicals, perhaps MCS and GWS will soon be provable (to your satisfaction) also. Besides, the same reactions can be invoked in lab animals.  Are you implying that lab rats are smart enough to be hypochondriacs? > (ie. how do you rule > out hypochondria?)

Run a search on "factitious asthma".  There are some fakes in every disease, aren’t there, Colin? J PS http://www.heartinstitute.net/wa/asmawky.shtml Asthma symptoms may include a chronic cough, wheezing, chest tightness, and shortness of breath, especially on                    exertion.<snip> I’d hazard a guess that 90% of people (who wanted to) could fake these symptoms and get an instant diagnosis of asthma.  They probably wouldn’t even be referred to a specialist but promptly given a script for asthma meds. Go ahead, take ten of your least healthy-looking men/women, dress them like they come from low socio-economic background (don’t say what they do for a living), tell them to give it their best shot to fake these symptoms and go through an HMO and see what happens.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> >See near the bottom for relevance to these two newsgroups. > >> >FWIW > >> What relevance? > >I was referring to this > >"Environmental Illness includes > >> Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), > >> Fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), Porphyria, Allergy and > >> Asthma." > >This is an asthma newsgroup, isn’t it? > >and I did say "FWIW" and even if you personally don’t think it’s worth > >posting/reading, others here might. > Lets see: With the exception of asthma and allergy how many of the > illnesses described above have diagnosing criteria which can rule out > any particular person from having that disease? > Porphyia – hematology (it’s a genetic blood disorder)

Yes. There are blood tests for this. > FM – ask rheumatolists why they’re making so much $$ diagnosing this.

No. There is to FM test. It is based on a constellation of symptoms and ruling other things out. The diagnosis is controversial in general and individual cases subject to a lot of opinion. > CFS – see Dr. Gabe Mirkin’s view on that – it’s the most reasonable I’ve > seen.

No. Ditto FM. > (ie. how do you rule > out hypochondria?) > Run a search on "factitious asthma".  There are some fakes in every disease, > aren’t there, Colin? > J

Hypochondria and malingering are too completely different things. Munchausen’s is something else entirely. — CBI, MD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >> >See near the bottom for relevance to these two newsgroups.>FWIW > > >> What relevance? > > >I was referring to this"Environmental Illness includes Multiple Chemical > Sensitivity (MCS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Fibromyalgia (FM), and > Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), Porphyria, Allergy and Asthma." > > >This is an asthma newsgroup, isn’t it? > > >and I did say "FWIW" and even if you personally don’t think it’s worth > posting/reading, others here might. > > Lets see: With the exception of asthma and allergy how many of the > > illnesses described above have diagnosing criteria which can rule out > > any particular person from having that disease? > Porphyia – hematology (it’s a genetic blood disorder) > Yes. There are blood tests for this. > FM – ask rheumatolists why they’re making so much $$ diagnosing this. > No. There is to FM test.

No blood test.  Some brain changes are claimed to be visualized on MRI but I question that theory, until further info is available on just who they tested and at what time in the FM they were tested (ie current meds which might affect/cause the brain patterns to be similar), what other diagnoses the persons might have in common.  And the tender points…very subjective (on both the rheumatologist and the patient’s). > It is based on a constellation of symptoms and > ruling other things out. The diagnosis is controversial in general and > individual cases subject to a lot of opinion.

And variations in severity of both the pain and the sleep problems. > CFS – see Dr. Gabe Mirkin’s view on that – it’s the most reasonable I’ve > seen. > No. Ditto FM.

Disagree, but it stands to reason that both can overlap.  CFS can appear without any pain, but can eventually lead to pain (see sleep deprivation studies on perfectly healthy individuals).  FM is by definition, fibro *myalgia* (pain) and pain during sleep can cause CFS. > > (ie. how do you rule out hypochondria?) > Run a search on "factitious asthma".  There are some fakes in every > disease, aren’t there, Colin? > Hypochondria and malingering are too completely different things. > Munchausen’s is something else entirely.

Thanks I knew that If memory serves, years ago, people with asthma were often thought to be just "stressed" or in a "panic attack" and it wasn’t taken seriously by some. (although I realize that there’s sometimes an exacerbatory effect by  "stress" to asthma, or any chronic illness for that matter). J

Response:

I am still worrying about the gay conspirators in their fuchsia helicopters. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

Response:

> >See near the bottom for relevance to these two newsgroups. >FWIW > What relevance?

I was referring to this "Environmental Illness includes > Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), > Fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), Porphyria, Allergy and > Asthma."

This is an asthma newsgroup, isn’t it? and I did say "FWIW" and even if you personally don’t think it’s worth posting/reading, others here might. J

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >See near the bottom for relevance to these two newsgroups. > >FWIW > What relevance? >I was referring to this >"Environmental Illness includes > Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), > Fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), Porphyria, Allergy and > Asthma." >This is an asthma newsgroup, isn’t it? >and I did say "FWIW" and even if you personally don’t think it’s worth >posting/reading, others here might.

Lets see: With the exception of asthma and allergy how many of the illnesses described above have diagnosing criteria which can rule out any particular person from having that disease?  (ie. how do you rule out hypochondria?) There is no ‘Army of One’ in the word: ‘Team’

Response:

See near the bottom for relevance to these two newsgroups. FWIW J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > First International Environmental Illness Conference > www.eisc.ca/Conference-may-2001/index.htm > May 18-19, 2001 u Ottawa – Canada > SPEAKERS > Nicholas Ashford, PhD., JD, FAAAS, International Developments in the > Recognition of the Effects of Low-Level Chemical Exposures. > Riina Bray, MD, CCFP, The First Canadian Peer Presenter Program on > Environmental Illness Instituted by the Canadian College of Family > Practitioners (Peer Presenter Program, CFPC) > Gunnar Heuser, MD, PhD., FACP, DIPL. MED; The Medical Work-Up of the > Environmentally III Patient > Jay Kassirer, BSc, MBA, Socio-Economic Impacts of Environmental Illness on > Canadians an EISC Study > Jozef Krop, MD, FAAEM, Health Effects of Dental Amalgams and Root Canals. > Tang G. Lee, MArch, AScT, MRAIC, MAAA., A Multidisciplinary Approach Is > Required To Recognising And Solving Occupant Illness Problems. > Trevor Lyons, BDS, LDS, RCDS, RM, Systemic Implications of Oral Infection: > The Mouth as the Focus for Systemic Infection. > Claudia McKeen BScPhm, Helping You Help Your Patients Through Compounding. > Lynn Marshall, MD, FAAEM, Research Initiatives at the University of Toronto > Environmental Health Clinic, SunnyBrook and Women’s College Health Sciences > Centre and; Taking the Exposure History (CFPC Peer Presenter Program) > John Molot, MD, CCFP, Pesticides and Their Known Health Effects (Peer > Presenter Program, CFPC) > Devi Nambudripad, PhD, DC, LAc, RN, The Nambudripad Allergy Elimination > Technique (NAET) in Treating Patients With Environmental Illness > Garth Nicolson, PhD, PCR Testing For Mycoplasma And Chlamydia In CFS/MCS. > Prognosis Where Treatment Is Instituted. > Gerald H. Ross, MD, CCFP, DIBEM, DABEM, FAAEM, FRSM; Basic Principals of > Environmental Medicine and Chemical Sensitivity and, "Reduction of Chemical > Sensitivity by Means of Heat Depuration, Physical Therapy and Nutritional > Supplementation in a Controlled Environment. > Theodore Simon, MD The Triple Headed SPECT Scan in Confirming a Diagnosis of > MCS, CFS or FM. > Karen Schad, (Katherine Willow) ND, Managing the Care of the Environmentally > Ill Patient Through Naturopathic Medicine > Kindly advise your members, your email LISTS or, your audience about this > first international medical conference on Environmental Illness. Webmasters > are asked to add our psa announcement to their Websites and a hotlinks to > www.eisc.ca > 1-877-313-EISC (3472) Sponsorship & exhibitor information. Judy Spence, CEO, > tickets > —- > First International Environmental Illness Conference > www.eisc.ca/Conference-may-2001/index.htm  u May 18-19, 2001 u Ottawa – > Canada > Public Service Announcement (228 words) > The First International Environmental Illness Conference is like a ”total > eclipse of the sun" > Only once in a lifetime will such a long list of illustrious experts on > Environmental Illness all be speakers at the same medical conference > The Environmental Illness Society and the Faculty of Environmental Design of > the University of Calgary have partnered to deliver a conference on > Environmental Illness to be held in Ottawa this coming May 18-19. The > conference, the first of its kind, will examine Environmental Illness (EI) > from the perspective of the Medical Management of the EI patient and from > the perspective of EI as a Disability, including how to meet patients’ needs > for accommodation and healthy environments. Environmental Illness includes > Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), > Fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), Porphyria, Allergy and > Asthma. > Location: Crowne Plaza Hotel, 101 Lyon Street, Ottawa, Ontario (Canada) > Speakers: Dr. Gerald Ross, Professor Tang Lee, Dr. Karen Schad, Dr. Gunnar > Heuser, Dr. Devi Nambudripad, Professor Nicholas Ashford, Dr. Claudia > Miller, Dr. Lynn Marshall, Dr. Riina Bray, Professor Garth Nicolson, Claudia > McKeen, Phm., Jay Kassirer, MBA, Dr. Theodore Simon; Dr. Jozef Krop, Dr. > Trevor Lyons, Dr. Karen Schad > For Conference information call the Environmental Illness Society Tel: (613) > 729-2281, Toll Free: 1-877-313-EISC, Fax: (613) 728-1757 or, visit their > Website www.eisc.ca > — >      I am shifting the focus of _Blazing Tattles_ to creating the > future of the planet.  The environmental movement and health > activists make one victory and have five setbacks.  The global > ecosystem continues to degenerate and degenerative diseases > affect more and more people at earlier ages. >      I’m gonna see what I can do about that!

Response:

>See near the bottom for relevance to these two newsgroups. >FWIW >J

Now this source sounds almost as believable as the ’space aliens control the UN’ theories. >      I am shifting the focus of _Blazing Tattles_ to creating the > future of the planet.  The environmental movement and health > activists make one victory and have five setbacks.  The global > ecosystem continues to degenerate and degenerative diseases > affect more and more people at earlier ages. >      I’m gonna see what I can do about that!

What relevance?  Do you really think that these people really care about anything but their own agenda? There is no ‘Army of One’ in the word: ‘Team’

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