Question:
Well, I sure hope, if you have to have something wrong, it is amenable to correction without adding more "junk" to your medications list… oh, yes, I do recall mention of the autonomic nervous system… just that breathing/lungs were never specified as one of the areas. What an interesting site!! and thanks for the reply.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you find any relationship between neuropathy of a particular kind > (especially of the lungs and breathing…diaphragm) I hope you will post > it. > Other than the "chest wall pain" someone mentioned a week or so ago, and > also the asthma or other lung reaction to GERD reflux material being > aspirated during sleep, (if GERD, itself can be closely linked to diabetes > and neuropathy, I don’t know, but really suspect it in my family), I > haven’t > heard any claims about the lungs and neuropathy. However, it stands to > reason that where blood vessels get very small, there would be damage in > cases of high bg and BP–as in the kidneys, for example. > I will keep you posted as I learn new things. Actually, the test I had done > was supposed to check for heart damage. But the test involved breathing > into a tube in various ways. It is a fairly new test and I don’t think it > is widely available. And since it is so new, that is why they didn’t know > exactly what my results meant. All they knew was that my breathing pattern > was abnormal. I remember when I first took the test, the lady said I was > breathing too deeply and it would have to be done over. Then the next time, > my breaths were too shallow. The third time the machine registered that I > took an extra breath. But I swear I didn’t! I left there thinking that > either the woman who gave me the test didn’t know what she was doing, or > that the equipment might have been faulty. Then again, they had me lie down > on a rickety, broken old table and it was very uncomfortable. And part of > the test invloved having a painful plastic clip over my nostrils that > prevented me from getting any air that way. All in all, not a fun test! If > you want to read about it, here is the website: > http://www.anscore.com/ > I just don’t hear anyone mention it. > I hadn’t heard anyone mention it either. But I do know that now I sometimes > get winded for no apparent reason at all. Then again, I do have other > healthy problems and this might not even be related to the diabetes. > I have one diabetic aunt in her mid 80’s who has suffered pain in her > chest > for many years, and now blood clots from her neuropathic legs get > plastered > all over her lungs and cause untold but apparently partly reversible > damage > there, while putting an immense strain on her heart, which then must pump > all the harder to oxygenate the brain. Her sister, in her middle 80’s has > an honestly earned case of emphysema, no (or very little) neuropathy/blood > clots in her legs. > Hmmm… I haven’t had chest pain. But at one point, I had developed a > rapid heartbeat. I didn’t even know it. My Endo. discovered it on a > routine visit. He thought it might be caused by one of my meds. So he > pulled me off of all of them that might possibly cause it. I felt much > better after all that stuff got out of my system. > — > Type 2 > http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
Response:
spent a lot of time and effort in controlling the A1c’s…… my present #’s don’t please me, but we can’t all live at 5.5 for ever keep you bg readings down….. this is our only defence against complications….. — k t1 14 yr
Janet I just got the willies from your post. What is the inevitable, insulin or amputation. I was under the impression that I coud live a full and normal life if I kept my bgs under control. Is that a wrong assumption. Am I destined for dialysis blindness, amputation or insulin,no matter what I do. If so I want to go out a happy camper.
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> If you find any relationship between neuropathy of a particular kind > (especially of the lungs and breathing…diaphragm) I hope you will post it. > Other than the "chest wall pain" someone mentioned a week or so ago, and > also the asthma or other lung reaction to GERD reflux material being > aspirated during sleep, (if GERD, itself can be closely linked to diabetes > and neuropathy, I don’t know, but really suspect it in my family), I haven’t > heard any claims about the lungs and neuropathy. However, it stands to > reason that where blood vessels get very small, there would be damage in > cases of high bg and BP–as in the kidneys, for example.
I will keep you posted as I learn new things. Actually, the test I had done was supposed to check for heart damage. But the test involved breathing into a tube in various ways. It is a fairly new test and I don’t think it is widely available. And since it is so new, that is why they didn’t know exactly what my results meant. All they knew was that my breathing pattern was abnormal. I remember when I first took the test, the lady said I was breathing too deeply and it would have to be done over. Then the next time, my breaths were too shallow. The third time the machine registered that I took an extra breath. But I swear I didn’t! I left there thinking that either the woman who gave me the test didn’t know what she was doing, or that the equipment might have been faulty. Then again, they had me lie down on a rickety, broken old table and it was very uncomfortable. And part of the test invloved having a painful plastic clip over my nostrils that prevented me from getting any air that way. All in all, not a fun test! If you want to read about it, here is the website: http://www.anscore.com/ > I just don’t hear anyone mention it.
I hadn’t heard anyone mention it either. But I do know that now I sometimes get winded for no apparent reason at all. Then again, I do have other healthy problems and this might not even be related to the diabetes. > I have one diabetic aunt in her mid 80’s who has suffered pain in her chest > for many years, and now blood clots from her neuropathic legs get plastered > all over her lungs and cause untold but apparently partly reversible damage > there, while putting an immense strain on her heart, which then must pump > all the harder to oxygenate the brain. Her sister, in her middle 80’s has > an honestly earned case of emphysema, no (or very little) neuropathy/blood > clots in her legs.
Hmmm… I haven’t had chest pain. But at one point, I had developed a rapid heartbeat. I didn’t even know it. My Endo. discovered it on a routine visit. He thought it might be caused by one of my meds. So he pulled me off of all of them that might possibly cause it. I felt much better after all that stuff got out of my system. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
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If you find any relationship between neuropathy of a particular kind (especially of the lungs and breathing…diaphragm) I hope you will post it. Other than the "chest wall pain" someone mentioned a week or so ago, and also the asthma or other lung reaction to GERD reflux material being aspirated during sleep, (if GERD, itself can be closely linked to diabetes and neuropathy, I don’t know, but really suspect it in my family), I haven’t heard any claims about the lungs and neuropathy. However, it stands to reason that where blood vessels get very small, there would be damage in cases of high bg and BP–as in the kidneys, for example. I just don’t hear anyone mention it. I have one diabetic aunt in her mid 80’s who has suffered pain in her chest for many years, and now blood clots from her neuropathic legs get plastered all over her lungs and cause untold but apparently partly reversible damage there, while putting an immense strain on her heart, which then must pump all the harder to oxygenate the brain. Her sister, in her middle 80’s has an honestly earned case of emphysema, no (or very little) neuropathy/blood clots in her legs.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am not on a low carb diet. I am following the diet given to me by the > > dietician. It works for me. And I am on diet and exercise alone. I > can’t > > explain why other people don’t eat this way except perhaps that it does > not > > work for them. > Julie, from what I see of what you post here, your metabolism and > experiences are quite different from most of us. I don’t know of anyone > else who can eat that many carbs, particularly without concern for whether > they’re complex or simple, nor do I know of anyone else who can have a > severe low without being on meds. If I ate what you do, in spite of all > my meds and insulin, I’d be in the 200s constantly, if not higher. (This > was true even when I was unmedicated — only low, complex, carb worked for > me.) > And though I’m on meds and insulin, and my readings are between 75-120 > most > of the time, I very rarely go below 70, have only seen 59 once. > Perhaps some of your other meds have an effect on your metabolism and > insulin production? > The only other prescription meds I am taking are Synthroid for low thyroid, > Lisinopril for blood pressure, and more recently Triamterene (I think that’s > the name), a diuretic. I do take various vitamins, minerals and supplements > such as L Carnitine, Citrimax, CLA, Flaxseed Oil and Evening Primrose Oil. > As far as I know, none of those have an effect on digestion or blood sugar. > I take some of them for the neuropathy/fibromyalgia and others to help with > fat loss/muscle gain. > I saw my Endo. yesterday and he said my Anscore test came back showing some > irregular breathing patterns. He wasn’t sure exactly what this meant, but > that it was indicative of neuropathy. And we’ve already established that I > have moderate neuropathy of the feet and lower legs. His thought was that > the neuropathy was affecting my digestion, hence the lows. I have not had > any lows in the past 2 months. I must go back for another Anscore test and > also a treadmill test. He said he was going to wait on that because he > didn’t think I was strong enough to do it. > I know other diabetics who follow a similar diet to me. My brother is one. > In fact, he eats more carbs and more calories per day than I do. And he is > sedentary for the most part. He does take an oral med. It’s either > Glipizide or Glyburide. I forget which. Sometimes I am astounded at what > he can eat. When he goes to The Olive Garden for dinner, he eats two > helpings of salad and two bowls of Pasta Fagioli. And his BG is fine. I > could only eat half that much. And he just returned from a trip to England, > France and Italy. Hearing about all the food that he ate there made me want > to weep! Guess we’re all different. > I also really believe that exercise is key in keeping my BG down. I try to > do some form of it every day. But it isn’t always easy to do with all the > health problems I have. > — > Type 2 > http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
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For many people in the early part of the 1900’s (doncha love it? now that we’re in the 2000’s?) having diabetes was a shameful thing, as was epilepsy, any type of cancer and many others. Apparently it was regarded as some sort of weakness of character to have any of these. *?* I’ve never understood it myself. Nancy F. to discuss if they have diabetes is like – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> pulling teeth… all well and good, since they may be handling it themselves > just fine and may not want any advice or interference from "know-it-alls" > like me. But it indicates that they may be hiding info from the rest of the > family as to the extent of diabetes in the family. Or they may be honoring > the secretiveness of a parent who died after not controlling very well. ( > yes, we do have a great streak of guilt and shame in our family… one > never knows what secret sins we may be hiding. I think just being > defensive about overweight drives some into denial of more serious problems) > Even a reluctance to describe cause of death may prevent others from > conclusion, in the case, especially, where doctors are also mealy-mouthed.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am not on a low carb diet. I am following the diet given to me by the > dietician. It works for me. And I am on diet and exercise alone. I > can’t > explain why other people don’t eat this way except perhaps that it does > not > work for them. > Julie, from what I see of what you post here, your metabolism and > experiences are quite different from most of us. I don’t know of anyone > else who can eat that many carbs, particularly without concern for whether > they’re complex or simple, nor do I know of anyone else who can have a > severe low without being on meds. If I ate what you do, in spite of all > my meds and insulin, I’d be in the 200s constantly, if not higher. (This > was true even when I was unmedicated — only low, complex, carb worked for > me.) > And though I’m on meds and insulin, and my readings are between 75-120 most > of the time, I very rarely go below 70, have only seen 59 once. > Perhaps some of your other meds have an effect on your metabolism and > insulin production?
The only other prescription meds I am taking are Synthroid for low thyroid, Lisinopril for blood pressure, and more recently Triamterene (I think that’s the name), a diuretic. I do take various vitamins, minerals and supplements such as L Carnitine, Citrimax, CLA, Flaxseed Oil and Evening Primrose Oil. As far as I know, none of those have an effect on digestion or blood sugar. I take some of them for the neuropathy/fibromyalgia and others to help with fat loss/muscle gain. I saw my Endo. yesterday and he said my Anscore test came back showing some irregular breathing patterns. He wasn’t sure exactly what this meant, but that it was indicative of neuropathy. And we’ve already established that I have moderate neuropathy of the feet and lower legs. His thought was that the neuropathy was affecting my digestion, hence the lows. I have not had any lows in the past 2 months. I must go back for another Anscore test and also a treadmill test. He said he was going to wait on that because he didn’t think I was strong enough to do it. I know other diabetics who follow a similar diet to me. My brother is one. In fact, he eats more carbs and more calories per day than I do. And he is sedentary for the most part. He does take an oral med. It’s either Glipizide or Glyburide. I forget which. Sometimes I am astounded at what he can eat. When he goes to The Olive Garden for dinner, he eats two helpings of salad and two bowls of Pasta Fagioli. And his BG is fine. I could only eat half that much. And he just returned from a trip to England, France and Italy. Hearing about all the food that he ate there made me want to weep! Guess we’re all different. I also really believe that exercise is key in keeping my BG down. I try to do some form of it every day. But it isn’t always easy to do with all the health problems I have. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
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> Even a reluctance to describe cause of death may prevent others from > conclusion, in the case, especially, where doctors are also mealy-mouthed. > I had a relative whose death certificate said heart attack, > but the doctor admitted off the record that it was actually > caused by years of too much alcohol.
in my mother’s side of the family, between bi-polar, alcoholism, hyperglycemia. ultra sensitivity to alcohol and diabetes, I do really have some theories as to the inter-relationship of all of these, as well as strokes and heart attacks. Does years of "drinking" prevent the system from recognizing that it is really diabetic?? (does estrogen hide or delay onset of diabetes/heart attacks, etc.?) So many questions, so many untested theories…. what a fascinating disease!!!
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> Even a reluctance to describe cause of death may prevent others from > conclusion, in the case, especially, where doctors are also mealy-mouthed.
I had a relative whose death certificate said heart attack, but the doctor admitted off the record that it was actually caused by years of too much alcohol. — Wes Groleau http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau
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> I am not on a low carb diet. I am following the diet given to me by the > dietician. It works for me. And I am on diet and exercise alone. I can’t > explain why other people don’t eat this way except perhaps that it does not > work for them.
Julie, from what I see of what you post here, your metabolism and experiences are quite different from most of us. I don’t know of anyone else who can eat that many carbs, particularly without concern for whether they’re complex or simple, nor do I know of anyone else who can have a severe low without being on meds. If I ate what you do, in spite of all my meds and insulin, I’d be in the 200s constantly, if not higher. (This was true even when I was unmedicated — only low, complex, carb worked for me.) And though I’m on meds and insulin, and my readings are between 75-120 most of the time, I very rarely go below 70, have only seen 59 once. Perhaps some of your other meds have an effect on your metabolism and insulin production? CarolC
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I often wonder if the thousands of years of types of food and the interbreeding within the "race?" "ethnic group?" (whatever) hasn’t developed a YMMV pattern. That is, my Scandanavian ancestors have given me a predisposition to one pattern of carb/protein/fat that is best for ME while my friend’s African ancestors have given him a different predispostion. Has there ever been a study of this? I know there have been studies showing higher/lower rates of Type 2 diabetes among different ethnic groups.
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I agree with Jennifer, but with this addition: The degree of complications may not be known, even if one dies at 85, after living with diabetes for decades (and under not very good control at that). Do we assume blindness accompanies old age in certain families? Trying to get relatives my age to discuss if they have diabetes is like pulling teeth… all well and good, since they may be handling it themselves just fine and may not want any advice or interference from "know-it-alls" like me. But it indicates that they may be hiding info from the rest of the family as to the extent of diabetes in the family. Or they may be honoring the secretiveness of a parent who died after not controlling very well. ( yes, we do have a great streak of guilt and shame in our family… one never knows what secret sins we may be hiding. I think just being defensive about overweight drives some into denial of more serious problems) Even a reluctance to describe cause of death may prevent others from conclusion, in the case, especially, where doctors are also mealy-mouthed. example: Intestinal or bowel obstruction, and consequent gangrene. Of course, many cardiac and circulatory complications may be related to diabetes, so strokes and heart attacks as cause of death don’t say much.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Janet I just got the willies from your post. What is the inevitable, > insulin or amputation. I was under the impression that I coud live a > full and normal life if I kept my bgs under control. Is that a wrong > assumption. Am I destined for dialysis blindness, amputation or > insulin,no matter what I do. If so I want to go out a happy camper. > Loretta
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Janet I just got the willies from your post. What is the inevitable, insulin or amputation. I was under the impression that I coud live a full and normal life if I kept my bgs under control. Is that a wrong assumption. Am I destined for dialysis blindness, amputation or insulin,no matter what I do. If so I want to go out a happy camper. Loretta Women in Afghanistan have no human rights. Please write to your Congressman and Senator requesting action against these horrors
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You’re not destined Loretta… But in my two years as a diabetic, I’ve met many folks on many mailing lists, that have kept their BG tightly controlled and still got complications. I’ve also met many who have had poor control for years and don’t have complications. There is just too much science doesn’t know. However for me, I’ve decided that my best, if not absolute, chance for continued good health is to keep tight control. If it doesn’t work, then at least I know I did all I could. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Janet I just got the willies from your post. What is the inevitable, > insulin or amputation. I was under the impression that I coud live a > full and normal life if I kept my bgs under control. Is that a wrong > assumption. Am I destined for dialysis blindness, amputation or > insulin,no matter what I do. If so I want to go out a happy camper. > Loretta > Women in Afghanistan have no human rights. Please write to your > Congressman and Senator > requesting action against these horrors
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> Hi , > My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England but originally > from London. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in June of this year > and have been prescribed pills and diet to help me with the diabetes. > What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been > recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in > carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in > this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does > anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing.
I am not on a low carb diet. I am following the diet given to me by the dietician. It works for me. And I am on diet and exercise alone. I can’t explain why other people don’t eat this way except perhaps that it does not work for them. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jeff Holt
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"Julie Bove" wrote … > I am not on a low carb diet. I am following the diet given to me by
the dietician. It works for me. And I am on diet and exercise alone. I can’t explain why other people don’t eat this way except perhaps that it does not work for them. > —
I’m on a moderate carb diet — a bit less carbs than the plan the dietician gave me, but far from low carb. Perhaps 11-12 servings of carbs vs 15 on the original diet. And I’m on d&e too. It works for me. bj
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> Hi , > My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England but originally > from London. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in June of this year > and have been prescribed pills and diet to help me with the diabetes. > What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been > recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in > carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in > this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does > anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing. > Jeff Holt
The more carbs you eat, the more meds you must take, the more vigorous exercise you must endure and the harder it is to lose weight. It’s your choice. Many Type 2 diabetics choose to limit their carbs. They repeatedly report that it makes it easier to lose weight (many, many diabetics are too heavy, losing weight helps them control blood sugars). They report that low carb diets help them to minimize or eliminate medications. The dieticians offer a high-carb "heart-smart" diet which tends to protect you from heart attacks if you can keep your blood sugars and weight down. It’s not too bad for Type 1’s who control by shooting insulin. However, for Type 2 diabetics, it is easy to prescribe, hard to live with. Thus, the large number of low-carb believers in the diabetic ranks. You must live with this disease the rest of your life. You too will make these choices. Welcome to the club. Most of us test two hours after a meal and aim for 7.8 mmol/L. A 10 mmol/L after eating is thought acceptable but the 7.8 mmol/L is much more desirable. If you can’t meet these goals, then best you reduce your carbs or ask your doc for stronger meds. (The penalties for missing the goals are very unpleasant) Good luck. Regards Old Al (T2 since. . .oops. . .T1 since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily) A retired engineer who shares his experiences
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The amount of carbs people here eat varies quite a lot. We do a complex dance with meds, nutrition and exercise. I’ve personally found my control best when I eat a combination of protein, fat and carb at every meal (4-5 small ones a day). There is also mounting evidence losing weight on fewer carbs causes less muscle loss and more fat loss, and results in more permanent loss. And as I lose more and more weight, I find it matters less and less what I eat. The carbs that used give me spikes after meals no longer do. I still avoid them, however. I’m in the process of cutting my meds now, and hope to have some years without them before the almost inevitable progression of this disease. I think exercise is the real key, however, both for weight loss and for control. Once I got into really good condition, I started being able to burn off blood sugar pretty quickly. >Hi , >My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England but originally >from London. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in June of this year >and have been prescribed pills and diet to help me with the diabetes. >What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been >recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in >carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in >this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does >anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing. > Jeff Holt
Janet El, Type 2 dx 11/00 Glucophage 1000
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| Thanks for your quick reply. As I have just started dieting I am | following Doctors/Nurses orders but in the course of time if the | orders do not work I will experiment with my own diet, as has been | quoted in this newsgroup often "ymmv" Testing before meals will not tell you if it is working, mean time you are doing damage to your body…. — Some mornings it just doesn’t seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. Emo Philips A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin Delano Roosevelt www.erols.com/driver8 http://ntserver.at/rockcreek
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| Thanks for your quick reply, I test before meals approx 3 times a day | and my BG counts are normally between 5 and 7 (I believe in the States | you multiply this by 18) . Before meals does not tell you how your foods affect your BGs… If you are at 140 before a meal what might you be at 1 hour after? Maybe as high as 200, that is where damage is occurring. Test 2 hours after as well…. IMHO — Some mornings it just doesn’t seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. Emo Philips A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin Delano Roosevelt www.erols.com/driver8 http://ntserver.at/rockcreek
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Jeff, I think that it is because many people in this group test after >meals with their glucometers, and have verified for themselves that >limiting carb intake helps them maintain normal bg levels. The standard >"healthy diet" just does not work very well for many diabetics. >Personally I went from taking the maximum dose of tolinase to taking no >med by watching carbs, losing some weight, and exercising regularly. If >I were still doing the recommended diet, I bet I would still be taking >meds. >Richard > Hi , > My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England > snip
What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been > recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in > carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in > this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does > anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing. > Jeff Holt
Hi Richard , Thanks for your quick reply. As I have just started dieting I am following Doctors/Nurses orders but in the course of time if the orders do not work I will experiment with my own diet, as has been quoted in this newsgroup often "ymmv" Regards Jeff PS: Should I top post or bottom post
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> Jeff replied: > Thanks for your quick reply, I test before meals approx 3 times a day > and my BG counts are normally between 5 and 7 (I believe in the States > you multiply this by 18) . > Regards Jeff
Jeff… It’s the post meal numbers that really show how your body is handling this disease. Here’s the advice I give all newbies: Sounds like you’re planning a move to take control of your diabetes… good for you. There is so much to absorb… you don’t have to rush into anything. Begin by using your best weapon in this war, your meter. The most important thing you can do to learn about yourself and diabetes is test test test. What you are looking to discover is how different foods affect you. As I’m sure you’ve read, carbohydrates (sugars, wheat, rice… the things our Grandmas called "starches") raise blood sugars the most rapidly. Protein and fat do raise them, but not as high and much more slowly… so if you’re a T2, generally the insulin your body still makes may take care of the rise. You might want to try some experiments. First: Day one: eat whatever you’ve been currently eating… but write it down. Test yourself at the following times: Upon waking (fasting) 1 hour after each meal 2 hours after each meal At bedtime That means 8 x for that day. What you will discover by this is how long after a meal your highest reading comes… and how fast you return to "normal". Also, you may see that a meal that included bread, fruit or other carbs gives you a higher reading. Then for the next few days, try to curb your carbs. Eliminate breads, cereals, rices, beans, any wheat products, potato, corn, fruit… get all your carbs from veggies. Test at the same schedule above. If you try this for a few days, you may find some pretty damn good readings. It’s worth a few days to discover. That’s the thing about this disease… we share much in common… we need to follow certain guidelines… but in the end, our bodies dictate our treatment and our success. The closer we get to non-diabetic numbers, the greater chance we have of avoiding horrible complications. The key here is AIM… I know that everyone is at a different point in their disease… and it is progressive. But, if we aim for the best numbers and do our best, that’s all we can do. Here’s my opinion on what numbers to aim for, they are non-diabetic numbers. Fasting Under 6 One hour after meals Under 8 Two hours after meals Under 6.5 Recent studies have indicated that the most important numbers are your "after meal" numbers. They may be the most indicative of future complications, especially heart problems. Listen to your doctor, but you are the leader of your diabetic care team. While his /her advice is learned, it is not absolute. You will end up knowing much more about your body and how it’s handling diabetes than your doctor will. The meter is our best weapon. Just remember, we’re not in a race or a competition with anyone but ourselves… Play around with your food plan… TEST TEST TEST. Learn what foods cause spikes, what foods cause cravings… Use your body as a science experiment. Best of luck! Jennifer
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>| Hi , >| My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England >|snip >|
What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been >| recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in >| carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in >| this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does >| anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing.
By testing our pre and post meal BGs it seems at least for me what keeps my BGs normal. That is what all this is about. Do you test after meals? Jeff replied: Thanks for your quick reply, I test before meals approx 3 times a day and my BG counts are normally between 5 and 7 (I believe in the States you multiply this by 18) . Regards Jeff
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| Hi , | My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England but originally | from London. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in June of this year | and have been prescribed pills and diet to help me with the diabetes. | | What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been | recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in | carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in | this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does | anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing. By testing our pre and post meal BGs it seems at least for me what keeps my BGs normal…. That is what all this is about. Do you test after meals? — Some mornings it just doesn’t seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. Emo Philips A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin Delano Roosevelt www.erols.com/driver8 http://ntserver.at/rockcreek
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Jeff, I think that it is because many people in this group test after meals with their glucometers, and have verified for themselves that limiting carb intake helps them maintain normal bg levels. The standard "healthy diet" just does not work very well for many diabetics. Personally I went from taking the maximum dose of tolinase to taking no med by watching carbs, losing some weight, and exercising regularly. If I were still doing the recommended diet, I bet I would still be taking meds. Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi , > My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England but originally > from London. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in June of this year > and have been prescribed pills and diet to help me with the diabetes. > What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been > recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in > carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in > this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does > anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing. > Jeff Holt
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Hi , My name is Jeff and I live in the North East of England but originally from London. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in June of this year and have been prescribed pills and diet to help me with the diabetes. What I find interesting is that where I live the diet I have been recommended by my diabetic nurse and my dietitian is high in carbohydrates and low in fats, but from the majority of postings in this newsgroup most people seem to be on a low carbohydrate diet, does anybody have an explanation for this or is it just the latest thing. Jeff Holt
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> Can someone tell me of a good book or other source.on the proper diet for a > diabetic. PLEASE-NO MIRACLE DIETS, CURES,ETC. I am just looking for a > generally accepted set of recommendations.
Your best bet is to see a dietician. There is no one diet that we all follow. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
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<snip> > "Many people who develop diabetes after age 40 can be cured by eating > a diet based on vegetables, whole grains, beans and fish and severely > restricting bakery products and sugar and limiting meat, chicken and > eggs and not eating fruits between meals.
<snip> That in itself should send up a BIG warning flag! Diabetes can NOT be cured! — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
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>> "Many people who develop diabetes after age 40 can be cured by eating > a diet based on vegetables, whole grains, beans and fish and severely > restricting bakery products and sugar and limiting meat, chicken and > eggs and not eating fruits between meals. >That in itself should send up a BIG warning flag! Diabetes can NOT be >cured!
I generally agree with that, but having listened to Dr. Mirkin on the radio a fair amount and read his website quite a bit I am aware that when he says "cured" he is not saying "cured forever". What he seems to mean rather is that people who follow his advice can (not "will") often achieve a state where they do not have to worry about their blood sugar and do not have to take medications. Of course, if they go back on their old diets, gain weight, they will start having the same problems again. So if you follow his recommendations and go to another doctor that doctor may not be able to diagnose you as "diabetic" without already knowing your history. Or at least that is his claim and he seems to back it up with good strong medical references. And he is a mainstream allopathic physician, not an osteopath, chiropractor, or some new age quack. That doesn’t mean he is right about everything. I find his diet something I cannot follow completely, for example. My teeth are not good enough to deal with a cup of wheat berries at every meal, and I like fat too much. On the other hand I find that I can indeed eat a good amount of cooked whole grains without spiking my blood glucose. But I agree that "cure" is too strong a word for what he is claiming. And I think you are perfectly right to take it as a warning, too. On the other hand he is at least not saying that everyone can be "cured" by following his recommendations, only that "many" people can be. Still I think he is worth a listen in spite of the too strong claim in that excerpt. Ed Seedhouse
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>"Many people who develop diabetes after age 40 can be cured by eating >a diet based on vegetables, whole grains, beans and fish and severely >restricting bakery products and sugar and limiting meat, chicken and >eggs and not eating fruits between meals. >Ed Seedhouse
no, this is a false a statement. This type of eating or not eating as the case may be, is about "controlling" the diabetes, it is in NO way a cure. To date their is NO cure for diabetes, regardless of type. Derek Type 1 since 1975 Minimed 508 Insulin Pump http://www.diabeticnet.com http://sweetblood.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.diabetesinterview.com http://www.zerolimit.net (irc server webpage for our chat room) #diabeticnet is the name of our IRC chat on zerolimit.net http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/misc/webtv.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/ <–Ircle Mac IRC software http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/06/cureall.htm
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says… >Can someone tell me of a good book or other source.on the proper diet for a >diabetic. PLEASE-NO MIRACLE DIETS, CURES,ETC. I am just looking for a >generally accepted set of recommendations.
My favorite book isn’t specifically for diabetics. It’s "Eat, Drink and Be Healthy". It’s published by Harvard and written by the head of their medical school. They rework the USDA food pyramid using more current research, and explain how to interpret research. I’ve found almost everything in it agrees with what I’ve learned here. Janet El, Type 2 dx 11/00 Glucophage 1250, diet, exercise
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> Myths? Well, it is said that eating a lower carb diet causes everything > from kidney failure to hair loss… However, after exhaustive research on > the net, I have found no studies that prove any of that. In anecdotal > reports, many many diabetics find it is the only way they have been able to > maintain good glucose and lipid levels.
I guess I’m one of those many. Only, many of the best sources of vitamins and minerals and such happen to come with carbohydrates. So even though I try to get as much of them as my BG will allow, I wonder about deficiencies. The first few months since diagnosis, I felt MUCH better than I had in previous years. But now my overall "feeling" is starting to "go downhill" and I wonder whether that’s why. — Wes Groleau http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau
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As Julie says we all follow our own way of eating I bought a book by Dr.Allan Borshuk called the Calorie Fat and/ Carbohydrate diet on Amazon. com. This books contains listings for 11,000 foods and their carbs I carried it like a bible. Loretta
In tribute to the United States of America and the Stateof Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife andterrorism.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> "Many people who develop diabetes after age 40 can be cured by eating >> a diet based on vegetables, whole grains, beans and fish and severely >> restricting bakery products and sugar and limiting meat, chicken and >> eggs and not eating fruits between meals. >That in itself should send up a BIG warning flag! Diabetes can NOT be >cured! > I generally agree with that, but having listened to Dr. Mirkin on the > radio a fair amount and read his website quite a bit I am aware that > when he says "cured" he is not saying "cured forever". What he seems > to mean rather is that people who follow his advice can (not "will") > often achieve a state where they do not have to worry about their > blood sugar and do not have to take medications. Of course, if they > go back on their old diets, gain weight, they will start having the > same problems again.
We always have to worry about our BG. > So if you follow his recommendations and go to another doctor that > doctor may not be able to diagnose you as "diabetic" without already > knowing your history. Or at least that is his claim and he seems to > back it up with good strong medical references. And he is a > mainstream allopathic physician, not an osteopath, chiropractor, or > some new age quack. That doesn’t mean he is right about everything. > I find his diet something I cannot follow completely, for example. My > teeth are not good enough to deal with a cup of wheat berries at every > meal, and I like fat too much. On the other hand I find that I can > indeed eat a good amount of cooked whole grains without spiking my > blood glucose.
I don’t follow his plan. I follow the Exchange Plan. And at times I have been controlled quite well by diet and exercise. This (I believe) caused me to be told by two different Drs. that I was NOT diabetic. And now I have Neuropathy. This kind of thinking is very dangerous. Once a diabetic, always a diabetic. At least for the time being. > But I agree that "cure" is too strong a word for what he is claiming. > And I think you are perfectly right to take it as a warning, too. On > the other hand he is at least not saying that everyone can be "cured" > by following his recommendations, only that "many" people can be. > Still I think he is worth a listen in spite of the too strong claim in > that excerpt.
I disagree. If he is going to word things as such, then he is misleading people. That is enough for me to not want to hear anything else he has to say. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
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> I generally agree with that, but having listened to Dr. Mirkin on the > radio a fair amount and read his website quite a bit I am aware that > when he says "cured" he is not saying "cured forever". What he seems > to mean rather is that people who follow his advice can (not "will") > often achieve a state where they do not have to worry about their > blood sugar and do not have to take medications. Of course, if they > go back on their old diets, gain weight, they will start having the > same problems again. > So if you follow his recommendations and go to another doctor that > doctor may not be able to diagnose you as "diabetic" without already > knowing your history.
I am using Glucophage and a low carb food plan. My last blood tests were an A1c of 4.8 and a fasting BG of 96. Lipids of 182 total. So if I went to another doctor that doctor would not be able to diagnose me as diabetic… ON PAPER. Two Krispy Kremes would prove otherwise. It does not mean I am cured, it means I am in control. Jennifer
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> But I agree that "cure" is too strong a word for what he is claiming. > And I think you are perfectly right to take it as a warning, too. On > the other hand he is at least not saying that everyone can be "cured" > by following his recommendations, only that "many" people can be. > Still I think he is worth a listen in spite of the too strong claim in > that excerpt.
I definitely think that "cured" is misleading, and am much more in favor of how it tends to be discussed here as simply being a "diabetic in control." I expect there are a number of people here who would not appear abnormal during a doctor’s visit and/or blood test, but who would still shoot up sky high with a heavy dose of carbohydrate. That they are well-controlled – even if only diet and exercise – is a far cry from cured. And calling it cured is more hyperbole than I’d be comfortable with and it would probably bias my viewpoint towards anyone using it. — David
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I’d have to agree with Janet.. I’m currently following a half-ass version of this diet.. and seem to be doing quite well on it. but each person has to find their own way of eating. what works for one will/or might not work for the next. — RK [T1 that was smarter then her previous Doctors!][dx'd 5/00][Lantus Lover w/Novolog] http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe (#diabeticnet chatroom software)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "KSB" > says… >Can someone tell me of a good book or other source.on the proper diet for a >diabetic. PLEASE-NO MIRACLE DIETS, CURES,ETC. I am just looking for a >generally accepted set of recommendations. > My favorite book isn’t specifically for diabetics. It’s "Eat, Drink and Be > Healthy". It’s published by Harvard and written by the head of their medical > school. They rework the USDA food pyramid using more current research, and > explain how to interpret research. I’ve found almost everything in it agrees > with what I’ve learned here. > Janet El, Type 2 dx 11/00 Glucophage 1250, diet, exercise
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>I’m currently following a half-ass version of this diet…
You’ll only be half as cheeky !
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’d have to agree with Janet.. > I’m currently following a half-ass version of this diet.. and seem to be > doing quite well on it. > but each person has to find their own way of eating. what works for one > will/or might not > work for the next. > — > RK > [T1 that was smarter then her previous Doctors!][dx'd 5/00][Lantus Lover > w/Novolog] > http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe (#diabeticnet chatroom software) > In article
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "KSB" > says… > >Can someone tell me of a good book or other source.on the proper diet for > a > >diabetic. PLEASE-NO MIRACLE DIETS, CURES,ETC. I am just looking for a > >generally accepted set of recommendations. > My favorite book isn’t specifically for diabetics. It’s "Eat, Drink and Be > Healthy". It’s published by Harvard and written by the head of their > medical > school. They rework the USDA food pyramid using more current research, and > explain how to interpret research. I’ve found almost everything in it > agrees > with what I’ve learned here. > Janet El, Type 2 dx 11/00 Glucophage 1250, diet, exercise
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> As a source of information on diet and diabetes I like
www.drmirkin.com …. Anyway, here is a quote on diet for diabetics from this web site: > "Many people who develop diabetes after age 40 can be cured by …
He loses me right there. How can I trust what he says, after an opening like that? bj
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Can someone tell me of a good book or other source.on the proper diet for a diabetic. PLEASE-NO MIRACLE DIETS, CURES,ETC. I am just looking for a generally accepted set of recommendations.
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>Can someone tell me of a good book or other source.on the proper diet for a >diabetic. PLEASE-NO MIRACLE DIETS, CURES,ETC. I am just looking for a >generally accepted set of recommendations.
Many people advocate a low carbohydrate diet, and while this certainly reduces your sugar levels there is controversy about the effects on health of such a diet. As a source of information on diet and diabetes I like www.drmirkin.com because he cites papers published in peer reviewed journals to back up his advice. Naturally *no* single source of information should be taken as gospel. Anyway, here is a quote on diet for diabetics from this web site: "Many people who develop diabetes after age 40 can be cured by eating a diet based on vegetables, whole grains, beans and fish and severely restricting bakery products and sugar and limiting meat, chicken and eggs and not eating fruits between meals. Most late-onset diabetics have insulin; they lack the ability to respond adequately to insulin because they are overweight or they eat too much fat and refined carbohydrates. The first order is to substitute whole grains for bakery products because they fill you up and help you to eat less, and to restrict major sources of fat. A major study from Europe shows that eating too much protein damages the kidneys in diabetics (1). So diabetics should restrict meat, chicken and eggs. Another recent study shows that diets rich in refined carbohydrates harm diabetics and that taking monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats in vegetables and omega-3 fatty acids in fish helps to reduce insulin requirements (2). So substitute whole grains for foods made from flour. High blood sugar levels after meals cause sugar to stick to cells and be converted to a poison called sorbitol that causes nerve, kidney, artery and heart damage. To keep blood sugar levels from rising too high, substitute whole grains for refined carbohydrates found in bakery products, avoid table sugar and eat fruits only with meals. 1) M Toeller, A Buyken, G Heitkamp, S Bramswig, J Mann, R Milne, FA Gries, H Keen, B Karamanos, C Tountas and 4 more authors. Protein intake and urinary albumin excretion rates in the EURODIAB IDDM complications study. Diabetologia 40: 10 (OCT 1997): 219-1226. address M Toeller, Univ Dusseldorf, Diabet Res Inst, Clin Dept, Hennekamp 65, D-40225 Dusseldorf, Germany. 2) EM Berry. Dietary fatty acids in the management of diabetes mellitus. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 66: Suppl. 4(OCT 1997):S991-S997. Address EM Berry, Hebrew Univ Jerusalem, Hadassah Med Sch, Dept Human Nutr & Metab, POB 12272, IL-91120 Jerusalem, Israel." Ed Seedhouse
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> Can someone tell me of a good book or other source.on the proper diet for a > diabetic. PLEASE-NO MIRACLE DIETS, CURES,ETC. I am just looking for a > generally accepted set of recommendations.
You ask what on the surface appears to be a simple question… but it isn’t. There are many different food plans that diabetics use to control their glucose. And believe me, they are different. The most important thing we all need to remember is that there is no ONE diabetic diet. Low carb will work for some. Low fat will work for others. The ADA diet will work for some. The food pyramid will work for others. The only thing that is absolutely true is that whatever diet you and your meter determine works for you, will ONLY work if you stay on it. If you choose a plan to test…and then follow it half way, half heartedly for a week or so, you won’t have a good idea if that plan works. As for the different plans… only you and your meter can decide which is best for you. But, there are some general facts and myths. The "higher carb – low fat" plan of the ADA generally works best when the carbs consumed are of the "complex" variety. Stay away from highly processed carbohydrates. Aim for whole grains, brown rices, very little processed sugar. Try toi get much of your carbs from veggies. The "lower carb – higher protein" plan generally works best when you don’t fiddle with it. If you begin to add in too many carbs (your meter will know) you will find the cravings return, and it will be that much harder to stay the course… and your BG will rise. Myths? Well, it is said that eating a lower carb diet causes everything from kidney failure to hair loss… However, after exhaustive research on the net, I have found no studies that prove any of that. In anecdotal reports, many many diabetics find it is the only way they have been able to maintain good glucose and lipid levels. The higher carb diet has been maligned for causing more and more diabetics to succumb to all those horrible complications… blindness, amputations etc. However, it is the diet of choice of many many august organizations including the ADA. And many people find they do great on it. The only thing we can truly be sure of, is that keeping our blood glucose at non-diabetic levels, is the best way to avoid nasty complications. So do whatever it takes to get there. Non-diabetic numbers are: Fasting: 60 – 100 1hr pp: under 140 2 hr pp: under 120 Before a meal: 60 – 120 With an A1c under 6 So… if your diet is doing that. STAY ON IT. If it isn’t… then you might want to experiment with other options. Try your diet out for two weeks: Eat according to your chosen plan – But, test yourself at the following times: Upon waking (fasting) 1 hour after each meal 2 hours after each meal At bedtime That means 8 x each day. What you will discover by this is how long after a meal your highest reading comes… and how fast you return to "normal". You will learn how the food you’re eating affects your BG. Look at this as a big ole science experiment… If you are not achieving the numbers you desire… you might want to try another plan… But it will be up to you to know if you are being honest with the plan. A little change here and there, while it doesn’t make you a bad person… will skew the experiment and make the results suspect. As long as it’s working for you… You’re doing fine. Together we’ll help each other succeed. Jennifer
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Tony…. what’s aubergine? what family…. legume, tuber, night shade,…. — k t1 13 yrs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > A great addition to this dish is aubergine; dice and in she goes. As for the > tomatoes I prefer whole canned which I mash lightly using a potato masher. > Regards > Tony
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A great addition to this dish is aubergine; dice and in she goes. As for the tomatoes I prefer whole canned which I mash lightly using a potato masher. Regards Tony
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes >> or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some >> basil. > Ok Jude, that sounds like something I’d like to try…I’ve got garlic > bulbs, roma tomatos and I’ll pick up some fresh basil leaves and and a > zuchinni…should I get a can of tomato sauce?…can you explain to a > newbie how you go about "stewing" tomatos and zuke ? Do I just empty the > can of tom sauce in a pot/pan, heat it, slice the zuke and tom and put > them in there and let simmer until the zuke is is tender ? the tomato > starts out soft, so what do i look for there ? > Look for the zuke to be tender, but still a bit al dente. Remember as it > cools, the zuke will continue to cook. Roma’s are great flavored > tomatoes. Don’t worry about the tomatoes, make sure that you don’t cook > the zuke too long. And if you are making a larger batch for microwaving, > remember that that will also cook the ingredients longer, so undercook > all the batches you will have later. Depending on what you are doing with > it, the simmer may be as short as three to five minutes. > I don’t add tomato sauce. I like it kind of soupy. I just use the > tomatoes. Did I mention onions? They are pretty good in there, too. > Zuchinni will be a major component of our garden this spring. We’ll > grow it together. Mine will be strictly in containers as my property > is likely terribly polluted with carcinogens. So anyone with a few > square feet of space will be able to do what I do, even those that live > in an apartment (flat). We’ll start about March. > There is nothing like home-grown foods. Commercial foods are grown from > species and seeds that will allow them to be shipped and stored. That > mens that the veggies must be picked earlier than prime, and they must > be transported and/or stored. Usually the species used have thicker > peels and a harder flesh. And less flavor. Fresh veggies can be eaten, > cooked or canned right away and they have a much better flavor. > Those that want a head-start, keep your eye open to the produce department > of your grocery. Chive is one of the most flavorful herbs, and you want > to look for very healthy stems, thick, about 1/4 inch. It’s not too > early to get a live chive clump. Water it every day — it likes a lot > of water. Put it on your windowsill where it will get good sun, and trim > it very often, leaving about an inch and 1/2 to 2 inches. Trim it even > if you throw the trimmed part out. It grows better because it is trimmed. > A chive clump will last for years. > When spring comes, it will transplant easily to your garden. Then it will > continue to proliferate even after harsh winters. > Hugs everyone. > Jude > — > Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting > Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
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Instead of chopping basil with a knife use a scissors and cut, that way you don’t bruise the basil. Tony <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the basil is in the form of whole green leaves – I guess I need to > chop/cut it up ? > Yes, I would chop it a bit, but it could be added as whole leaves. > Basil is another of those herbs that we can grow on our windowsill > all year long. The key again is to trim the plant often, even if you > don’t use the trimmings. Basil grows fairly tall, so you want to > "tame" the plant to be shorter. By trimming you prevent the plant > from going to seed. Once it goes to seed, it gets bitter. > Basil+garlic=pesto. It’s a wonderful flavor to add to many foods. > Best eating. > Jude > — > Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting > Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
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I think aubergine is also known as eggplant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Tony…. what’s aubergine? what family…. legume, tuber, night shade,…. > — > k t1 13 yrs > A great addition to this dish is aubergine; dice and in she goes. As for > the > tomatoes I prefer whole canned which I mash lightly using a potato masher. > Regards > Tony
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thanks Jan…. you can substitute the zuke with eggplant (unless you have instead of parmesan try ricotta — k t1 13 yrs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I think aubergine is also known as eggplant. > Tony…. what’s aubergine? what family…. legume, tuber, night shade,…. > > A great addition to this dish is aubergine; dice and in she goes. As for > the > > tomatoes I prefer whole canned which I mash lightly using a potato masher. > > Regards > > Tony
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I am new to this group. My husband has been a Type 1 for 15+ years. I am curious what percentage of Carbs. Pro. & Fat others are using in their diets. For years it was high carbs, very low fat is best, but now I am reading that lowering carbs and increasing fat may be the way to go. He uses exchanges instead of carb counting. Thank you, Linda
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Linda, It’s quite possible to combine low-fat and low-carb and use exchanges. That’s what I do. Standard low-carb didn’t work well for me at all. I stay with exchanges because it’s easier and makes for a balanced nutritional plan. I just choose the lower carb items on my exchange list. — Teri T2, nutrition & exercise, 4/99 This isn’t a diet. It’s a permanent lifestyle change. I WILL do this!
| I am new to this group. My husband has been a Type 1 for 15+ years. I am | curious what percentage of Carbs. Pro. & Fat others are using in their | diets. For years it was high carbs, very low fat is best, but now I am | reading that lowering carbs and increasing fat may be the way to go. He | uses exchanges instead of carb counting. | | Thank you, | Linda | |
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Linda, I just finished the second (and last) day of Diabetes Education class. The dietician gave me a meal plan that has me consuming 45 grams of carbs at each meal with two snacks of 15 grams of carbs each. It is important to remember to eat proteins with the carbs at every meal to slow the rise in blood glucose. Your husband’s blood glucose levels are the best indication of whether his meal plan is working or not. If he is in good control and his blood tests are not showing anything bad then his diet is probably just fine. Everyone is different. What works for one person may not work for another. ~Cheryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Linda wrote… > I am new to this group. My husband has been a Type 1 for 15+ years. I am > curious what percentage of Carbs. Pro. & Fat others are using in their > diets. For years it was high carbs, very low fat is best, but now I am > reading that lowering carbs and increasing fat may be the way to go. He > uses exchanges instead of carb counting. > Thank you, > Linda
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Re. eating protein with every carb. I have always read that diabetics need a low protein diet to help avoid kidney problems. I have my husband at: 57% carb., 17% pro. & 24% fat. I was just curious to the breakdown others were using in their diets. His last A1C was very good. Thank you, Linda
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Linda, > I just finished the second (and last) day of Diabetes Education class. The > dietician gave me a meal plan that has me consuming 45 grams of carbs at > each meal with two snacks of 15 grams of carbs each. It is important to > remember to eat proteins with the carbs at every meal to slow the rise in > blood glucose. > Your husband’s blood glucose levels are the best indication of whether his > meal plan is working or not. If he is in good control and his blood tests > are not showing anything bad then his diet is probably just fine. Everyone > is different. What works for one person may not work for another. > ~Cheryl > Linda wrote… > I am new to this group. My husband has been a Type 1 for 15+ years. I am > curious what percentage of Carbs. Pro. & Fat others are using in their > diets. For years it was high carbs, very low fat is best, but now I am > reading that lowering carbs and increasing fat may be the way to go. He > uses exchanges instead of carb counting. > Thank you, > Linda
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There is no doubt that high protein diets are potentially bad for people with compromised kidneys. But, despite a serious search for information and research, I can find no information leading to the hypothesis that a high protein diet is bad for people with normal or even slightly compromised kidney function. It is my belief that this low protein advice is an old-wives tale, left over from the pre-home-glucometer days of poor glycemic control. It is the glycation of the nephrons, and the presence of Advanced Glycation Endproducts (AGE) which contribute to the nephrotoxicity leading to proteinuria. Absent that glycation, as in a well controlled diabetic, the kidneys actually can heal. That happened to me. At dx, my UA revealed that I had not micro but macro albuminaria, a +2 on the old dipstick. While searching for a solution for my flavor of diabetes, and having had the ADA high carb diet fail for me, I wanted to try the ever popular, but officially scorned, low carb WOE. But I was concerned with the high protein consumption and concommitant kidney stress that that WOE implied. I found that some considerable research, multi-year, multi-center, double-blind, placebo-controlled research, called the DFAN study had been carried out in Germany. That is where I got the information about the AGEs, and glycation. So I gave it a try. End result: +2, +1, Trace, None, None, None,and a follow up microalbuminaria test was low normal. The important point here is not what diet works for you, HC or LC, but that glycemic control is paramount. Secondly, taking antioxidants has been proven in this study to assist our kidneys in healing. Fairly large doses of beta-carotene, vit C, E, folic acid, alpha and gamma linoleic acid, and alpha lipoic acid actually were proven to scavenge the free radical oxidants which cause, or at least are linked to, AGE and, hence, nephropathy. If your current WOE is working for you, then it only makes sense to stay with it. But it appears that the old saw about limiting proteins may be erroneous. Now I’m not a vitamin and supplements huckster, if you buy them or where you buy them is your own choice, but based upon this credible medical research, and my personal experience, I thought you might want to know. Best, Jim (last A1c – 5.4) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Re. eating protein with every carb. I have always read that diabetics need > a low protein diet to help avoid kidney problems. I have my husband at: > 57% carb., 17% pro. & 24% fat. I was just curious to the breakdown others > were using in their diets. His last A1C was very good. > Thank you, > Linda
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I greatly appreciate this information. What does WOE stand for??? My husbands numbers are good but he is having some problem with weight gain. I thought decreasing the carbs might help with this. He is also Thanks again. Linda
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is no doubt that high protein diets are potentially bad for people > with compromised kidneys. But, despite a serious search for information > and research, I can find no information leading to the hypothesis that a > high protein diet is bad for people with normal or even slightly > compromised kidney function. It is my belief that this low protein > advice is an old-wives tale, left over from the pre-home-glucometer days > of poor glycemic control. > It is the glycation of the nephrons, and the presence of Advanced > Glycation Endproducts (AGE) which contribute to the nephrotoxicity > leading to proteinuria. Absent that glycation, as in a well controlled > diabetic, the kidneys actually can heal. That happened to me. > At dx, my UA revealed that I had not micro but macro albuminaria, a +2 > on the old dipstick. While searching for a solution for my flavor of > diabetes, and having had the ADA high carb diet fail for me, I wanted to > try the ever popular, but officially scorned, low carb WOE. But I was > concerned with the high protein consumption and concommitant kidney > stress that that WOE implied. > I found that some considerable research, multi-year, multi-center, > double-blind, placebo-controlled research, called the DFAN study had > been carried out in Germany. That is where I got the information about > the AGEs, and glycation. So I gave it a try. > End result: +2, +1, Trace, None, None, None,and a follow up > microalbuminaria test was low normal. > The important point here is not what diet works for you, HC or LC, but > that glycemic control is paramount. Secondly, taking antioxidants has > been proven in this study to assist our kidneys in healing. Fairly large > doses of beta-carotene, vit C, E, folic acid, alpha and gamma linoleic > acid, and alpha lipoic acid actually were proven to scavenge the free > radical oxidants which cause, or at least are linked to, AGE and, hence, > nephropathy. > If your current WOE is working for you, then it only makes sense to stay > with it. But it appears that the old saw about limiting proteins may be > erroneous. Now I’m not a vitamin and supplements huckster, if you buy > them or where you buy them is your own choice, but based upon this > credible medical research, and my personal experience, I thought you > might want to know. > Best, > Jim > (last A1c – 5.4) > Re. eating protein with every carb. I have always read that diabetics need > a low protein diet to help avoid kidney problems. I have my husband at: > 57% carb., 17% pro. & 24% fat. I was just curious to the breakdown others > were using in their diets. His last A1C was very good. > Thank you, > Linda
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WOE= way of eating Jan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I greatly appreciate this information. What does WOE stand for??? > My husbands numbers are good but he is having some problem with weight > gain. I thought decreasing the carbs might help with this. He is also > Thanks again. > Linda > There is no doubt that high protein diets are
potentially bad for people > with compromised kidneys. But, despite a serious search for information > and research, I can find no information leading to the hypothesis that a > high protein diet is bad for people with normal or even slightly > compromised kidney function. It is my belief that this low protein > advice is an old-wives tale, left over from the
pre-home-glucometer days – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> of poor glycemic control. > It is the glycation of the nephrons, and the presence of Advanced > Glycation Endproducts (AGE) which contribute to the nephrotoxicity > leading to proteinuria. Absent that glycation, as in a well controlled > diabetic, the kidneys actually can heal. That happened to me. > At dx, my UA revealed that I had not micro but macro albuminaria, a +2 > on the old dipstick. While searching for a solution for my flavor of > diabetes, and having had the ADA high carb diet fail for me, I wanted to > try the ever popular, but officially scorned, low carb WOE. But I was > concerned with the high protein consumption and concommitant kidney > stress that that WOE implied. > I found that some considerable research, multi-year, multi-center, > double-blind, placebo-controlled research, called the DFAN study had > been carried out in Germany. That is where I got the information about > the AGEs, and glycation. So I gave it a try. > End result: +2, +1, Trace, None, None, None,and a follow up > microalbuminaria test was low normal. > The important point here is not what diet works for you, HC or LC, but > that glycemic control is paramount. Secondly, taking antioxidants has > been proven in this study to assist our kidneys in
healing. Fairly large > doses of beta-carotene, vit C, E, folic acid, alpha and gamma linoleic > acid, and alpha lipoic acid actually were proven to scavenge the free > radical oxidants which cause, or at least are linked to, AGE and, hence, > nephropathy. > If your current WOE is working for you, then it only makes sense to stay > with it. But it appears that the old saw about limiting proteins may be > erroneous. Now I’m not a vitamin and supplements
huckster, if you buy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> them or where you buy them is your own choice, but based upon this > credible medical research, and my personal experience, I thought you > might want to know. > Best, > Jim > (last A1c – 5.4) > > Re. eating protein with every carb. I have always read that diabetics > need > > a low protein diet to help avoid kidney problems. I have my husband at: > > 57% carb., 17% pro. & 24% fat. I was just curious to the breakdown > others > > were using in their diets. His last A1C was very good. > > Thank you, > > Linda
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> I greatly appreciate this information. What does WOE stand for??? > My husbands numbers are good but he is having some problem with weight > gain. I thought decreasing the carbs might help with this. He is also
Linda, Change the carbs. More brocolli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, asparagus, green beans, cabbage. Less corn, peas, potatoes, grains. On the "fairly safe" list is tomatoes, onions, bell peppers, zuchinni. In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some basil. Add poultry instead of beef to cut fats (fat is much more caloric), serve fish several times a week because it is generally low-calorie and has omega-3 fats (read: good for you). Save the beef for a special occasion. Breads and pastas are the most difficult part. We use bread for sandwiches and there are not a lot of good alternatives. Sandwiches are convenient. Salads are eaten differently, but they can take the place of the bread. Within reason, almost anything that can be put on a piece of bread can be put on a salad. (I wouldn’t use peanut butter or jelly). Don’t forget soups, too. Most veggies cook well and a bit of chicken stock and a few raw veggies makes a soup pretty quickly. Pay attention: it’s mostly water. I’ll throw a few Tbls of rice or some cooked pasta from my freezer to make it more interesting. Soup slows you down and then your natural process of satisfaction begins. You’ll eat less during the meal. Which brings us to the matter of timing. Most of us eat too much because we eat so fast. It takes time for our brain to get the signal from our stomach that we have been fed. This is difficult for Modern Man, since we always have *something else* to do besides eating. We always seem to want to "get that out of the way". How many here had a romantic candle-lit dinner with the TV off, classical music on the stereo, and lots of food (all good for you)? No rush. By the time you get to this point, it hardly matters what you serve. Before I close, I must talk about exercise. BLAH. Exercise is the second-best thing that a diabetic can do for themselves. It doesn’t have to be particularly strenuous, but it is absolutely necessary. Those who have limb mobility can start by just a walk around the block once or twice a day. Increase the length and the pace as you go along. walk with your spouse or lover, walk with the kids, walk with the dog. The goal is 20 minutes of quick-pace walking to achieve the most benefit. But don’t let that throw you off. Five minutes of walking is better than zero minutes of exercise. Talk to us! Let us know if any of these suggestions help. Let us know how we can help you. Jude — Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
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> In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes > or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some > basil.
Ok Jude, that sounds like something I’d like to try…I’ve got garlic bulbs, roma tomatos and I’ll pick up some fresh basil leaves and and a zuchinni…should I get a can of tomato sauce?…can you explain to a newbie how you go about "stewing" tomatos and zuke ? Do I just empty the can of tom sauce in a pot/pan, heat it, slice the zuke and tom and put them in there and let simmer until the zuke is is tender ? the tomato starts out soft, so what do i look for there ? -Adrian Raleigh, NC
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes > > or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some > > basil. > Ok Jude, that sounds like something I’d like to try…I’ve got garlic > bulbs, roma tomatos and I’ll pick up some fresh basil leaves and and a > zuchinni…should I get a can of tomato sauce?…can you explain to a > newbie how you go about "stewing" tomatos and zuke ? Do I just empty the > can of tom sauce in a pot/pan, heat it, slice the zuke and tom and put > them in there and let simmer until the zuke is is tender ? the tomato > starts out soft, so what do i look for there ? > -Adrian > Raleigh, NC > Adrian….. from the culinary challenged department…. i chop up the > onions, smash the garlic, put them in a deep sided fry pan, cook at high > stirring constantly until the onions are translucent….throw in the > tomatoes and "chop" them with the spatula…. toss in the basil….stir…. > wait 5 to 10 min (to let the flavours mix)…. toss the zuke on top of the > mix, turn down to a simmer, cover and let the mixture steam the zuke until > translucent…… just after serving, sprinkle parmesan cheese on top > (really), but chop it into 1 inch strips and put it in when you put in the > i know this isn’t a recipe, but it’s how i cook (never the same dish twice!) > — > k t1 13 yrs
Thanks J & TL! The grocer was out of zuke, so I bought yellow squash. Cook the same way ? "smash the garlic", I’ll have to try that. So far I’ve always sliced it. Somebody (probably Jude) said to use the side of the knife blade. I’ve always started by heating up some olive oil and adding the onions & garlic, but it sounds like we’re not using oil here, just putting the onions and garlic straight in a hot empty pan ? won’t they burn ? should I add water ? the basil is in the form of whole green leaves – I guess I need to chop/cut it up ? -Adrian t2, raleigh, nc
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>> In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes > or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some > basil. > Ok Jude, that sounds like something I’d like to try…I’ve got garlic > bulbs, roma tomatos and I’ll pick up some fresh basil leaves and and a > zuchinni…should I get a can of tomato sauce?…can you explain to a > newbie how you go about "stewing" tomatos and zuke ? Do I just empty the > can of tom sauce in a pot/pan, heat it, slice the zuke and tom and put > them in there and let simmer until the zuke is is tender ? the tomato > starts out soft, so what do i look for there ?
Look for the zuke to be tender, but still a bit al dente. Remember as it cools, the zuke will continue to cook. Roma’s are great flavored tomatoes. Don’t worry about the tomatoes, make sure that you don’t cook the zuke too long. And if you are making a larger batch for microwaving, remember that that will also cook the ingredients longer, so undercook all the batches you will have later. Depending on what you are doing with it, the simmer may be as short as three to five minutes. I don’t add tomato sauce. I like it kind of soupy. I just use the tomatoes. Did I mention onions? They are pretty good in there, too. Zuchinni will be a major component of our garden this spring. We’ll grow it together. Mine will be strictly in containers as my property is likely terribly polluted with carcinogens. So anyone with a few square feet of space will be able to do what I do, even those that live in an apartment (flat). We’ll start about March. There is nothing like home-grown foods. Commercial foods are grown from species and seeds that will allow them to be shipped and stored. That mens that the veggies must be picked earlier than prime, and they must be transported and/or stored. Usually the species used have thicker peels and a harder flesh. And less flavor. Fresh veggies can be eaten, cooked or canned right away and they have a much better flavor. Those that want a head-start, keep your eye open to the produce department of your grocery. Chive is one of the most flavorful herbs, and you want to look for very healthy stems, thick, about 1/4 inch. It’s not too early to get a live chive clump. Water it every day — it likes a lot of water. Put it on your windowsill where it will get good sun, and trim it very often, leaving about an inch and 1/2 to 2 inches. Trim it even if you throw the trimmed part out. It grows better because it is trimmed. A chive clump will last for years. When spring comes, it will transplant easily to your garden. Then it will continue to proliferate even after harsh winters. Hugs everyone. Jude — Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes > or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some > basil. > Ok Jude, that sounds like something I’d like to try…I’ve got garlic > bulbs, roma tomatos and I’ll pick up some fresh basil leaves and and a > zuchinni…should I get a can of tomato sauce?…can you explain to a > newbie how you go about "stewing" tomatos and zuke ? Do I just empty the > can of tom sauce in a pot/pan, heat it, slice the zuke and tom and put > them in there and let simmer until the zuke is is tender ? the tomato > starts out soft, so what do i look for there ? > -Adrian > Raleigh, NC
Adrian….. from the culinary challenged department…. i chop up the onions, smash the garlic, put them in a deep sided fry pan, cook at high stirring constantly until the onions are translucent….throw in the tomatoes and "chop" them with the spatula…. toss in the basil….stir…. wait 5 to 10 min (to let the flavours mix)…. toss the zuke on top of the mix, turn down to a simmer, cover and let the mixture steam the zuke until translucent…… just after serving, sprinkle parmesan cheese on top (really), but chop it into 1 inch strips and put it in when you put in the i know this isn’t a recipe, but it’s how i cook (never the same dish twice!) — k t1 13 yrs
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes > > or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some > > basil. > Ok Jude, that sounds like something I’d like to try…I’ve got garlic > bulbs, roma tomatos and I’ll pick up some fresh basil leaves and and a > zuchinni…should I get a can of tomato sauce?…can you explain to a > newbie how you go about "stewing" tomatos and zuke ? Do I just empty the > can of tom sauce in a pot/pan, heat it, slice the zuke and tom and put > them in there and let simmer until the zuke is is tender ? the tomato > starts out soft, so what do i look for there ? > -Adrian > Raleigh, NC > Adrian….. from the culinary challenged department…. i chop up the > onions, smash the garlic, put them in a deep sided fry pan, cook at high > stirring constantly until the onions are translucent….throw in the > tomatoes and "chop" them with the spatula…. toss in the basil….stir…. > wait 5 to 10 min (to let the flavours mix)…. toss the zuke on top of the > mix, turn down to a simmer, cover and let the mixture steam the zuke until > translucent…… just after serving, sprinkle parmesan cheese on top > (really), but chop it into 1 inch strips and put it in when you put in the > i know this isn’t a recipe, but it’s how i cook (never the same dish twice!)
It’s a wonderful recipe, K, some of the best are a little bit of this, a pinch of that. You explained it just right. Parmesan goes very well with zuchinni. I don’t think there is one recipe I can absolutely duplicate a second time. But then I’m not a chef. I can make something good 97% of the time. The other 3%? It’ll still be healthy, but I might not keep the leftovers. It is good to experiment with cooking the foods that are on your most- desirable foods. It does not have to be a recognized recipe. There are some awful combinations of good foods, but lucky we seldom find them. Hungarian paprika is a wonderful herb. I use it in a lot of dishes. It is mildly hot, and it causes meats to brown wonderfully. Depending where you get it, it can be hot and spicy. Consider it a flour as it causes the sauce to thicken. I don’t know the nutritional values, but it is a flour made from peppers. PS: Thanks for the warm fuzzies in your email message. I’m just a bit fried right now. I think I’m doing alright, but I might need your help in the next few days. Best health to all. Jude — Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting z Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > In fact, that’s a wonderful side-dish right there — stewed tomatoes > > > or stewed zuke in tomato sauce. I’d just add a bit of garlic and some > > > basil. > > Ok Jude, that sounds like something I’d like to try…I’ve got garlic > > bulbs, roma tomatos and I’ll pick up some fresh basil leaves and and a > > zuchinni…should I get a can of tomato sauce?…can you explain to a > > newbie how you go about "stewing" tomatos and zuke ? Do I just empty the > > can of tom sauce in a pot/pan, heat it, slice the zuke and tom and put > > them in there and let simmer until the zuke is is tender ? the tomato > > starts out soft, so what do i look for there ? > > -Adrian > > Raleigh, NC > Adrian….. from the culinary challenged department…. i chop up the > onions, smash the garlic, put them in a deep sided fry pan, cook at high > stirring constantly until the onions are translucent….throw in the > tomatoes and "chop" them with the spatula…. toss in the basil….stir…. > wait 5 to 10 min (to let the flavours mix)…. toss the zuke on top of the > mix, turn down to a simmer, cover and let the mixture steam the zuke until > translucent…… just after serving, sprinkle parmesan cheese on top > (really), but chop it into 1 inch strips and put it in when you put in the > i know this isn’t a recipe, but it’s how i cook (never the same dish twice!) > — > k t1 13 yrs > Thanks J & TL! > The grocer was out of zuke, so I bought yellow squash. Cook the same > way ? > "smash the garlic", I’ll have to try that. So far I’ve always sliced > it. Somebody (probably Jude) said to use the side of the knife blade. > I’ve always started by heating up some olive oil and adding the onions & > garlic, but it sounds like we’re not using oil here, just putting the > onions and garlic straight in a hot empty pan ? won’t they burn ? > should I add water ?
Use some spray, in the USA we have PAM. Or use olive oil. PAM is (I think) lecithin. Remember that you *should* have some fats (oil). (Fats help in your digestion and keep your joints lubricated.) > the basil is in the form of whole green leaves – I guess I need to > chop/cut it up ?
Yes, I would chop it a bit, but it could be added as whole leaves. Basil is another of those herbs that we can grow on our windowsill all year long. The key again is to trim the plant often, even if you don’t use the trimmings. Basil grows fairly tall, so you want to "tame" the plant to be shorter. By trimming you prevent the plant from going to seed. Once it goes to seed, it gets bitter. Basil+garlic=pesto. It’s a wonderful flavor to add to many foods. Best eating. Jude — Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
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> > i know this isn’t a recipe, but it’s how i cook (never the same dish twice!) > It’s a wonderful recipe, K, some of the best are a little bit of this, a > pinch of that. You explained it just right. Parmesan goes very well > with zuchinni. I don’t think there is one recipe I can absolutely > duplicate a second time. But then I’m not a chef. I can make something > good 97% of the time. The other 3%? It’ll still be healthy, but I might > not keep the leftovers.
ROTFL!!! Jude…. you’re soo much better than i….97% is edible…well, maybe better than that, the other 3%…. order out fast!!! > It is good to experiment with cooking the foods that are on your most- > desirable foods. It does not have to be a recognized recipe. There > are some awful combinations of good foods, but lucky we seldom find them.
so far, not so bad…. and there’s always take out > Hungarian paprika is a wonderful herb. I use it in a lot of dishes. > It is mildly hot, and it causes meats to brown wonderfully. Depending > where you get it, it can be hot and spicy. Consider it a flour as > it causes the sauce to thicken. I don’t know the nutritional values, > but it is a flour made from peppers.
oohhhh….. i didn’t know that…. i do know that i can take day 1 english stew, add the hungarian paprika and have day 2 hungarian goulash (well…..)…, and if there is still left overs on day 3 add white peppers and serve over oodles of noodles……or rice or smashed taters or….. the continuing pot of food that turns into something else every day is my "area of ?specialty?"….. once i’m on to a good batch of whatever, may as well run with it, eh? also, i tend to be allergic to most of the peppers except orange and white, so perhaps being a flour i can tolerate it?? i wonder what the difference is? > PS: Thanks for the warm fuzzies in your email message. I’m just a bit > fried right now. I think I’m doing alright, but I might need your help in > the next few days.
harumph! <vbg>…. i did ask for some info…… and then came back here and thought "how stupid, Kate….it was under your nose the entire time"…… there is always tommorrow…. i’m picking up Momma Tibbie on Saturday and i’ll be back to bug you on Sunday…. > Best health to all. > Jude
ps…. i would have NOT posted if i had seen your reply….. cooking is NOT my thang!… EATING is my forte! — k t1 13 yrs
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I have often thanked my genes…… I have never had problems with kidneys, etc but I’m not an addict, either. Generally I think both Atkins and Bernstein had some good ideas and much of the conventional wisdom is ….unwise? (A couple of days in the hospital on a "diabetic" diet convinced me of THAT.) Moderation in everything. Some in the group have the ability to stick to a regime. Some don’t. Some need to and some don’t. I just think that "low carb" needn’t be a strait jacket but can be a source of good ideas and good recipes. Nan, Type 2
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> hmmm, your answer poses questions for me. With > insulin, a diabetic can consume what is considered a > ‘normal’ amount of carbs in their diet? Then why > aren’t more people on insulin instead of trying so hard > to maintain a rigid diet extreme?
Well, for me, I worry about the negative consequences of high amounts of insulin in the system. My understanding is that it’s bad for the heart. It’s also much easier, I think, to just eat low carb than have to mess around with calculating how much carb I’ve eaten, when it will hit my blood stream, which of various insulins I should inject when… I prefer to keep it simple. In addition, I’m trying to lose a little weight, not gain it, and eating whatever I please and shooting insulin to cover is a great way to gain weight. Priscilla — The Episcopal Church welcomes you… and you… and you….
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> I realize that the protein and fat subject borders on being a religious > subject, so I’ll just stick to my "beliefs" and not foment an argument. >Maybe maybe not.. depends on the person. Taking insulin is not enough for >many because their problem is they are insulin resistant. > Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought all T2 was insulin resistance – at least until > the beta cells burn out. Wrong??
I don’t think so. You might be producing some but not enough insulin. You might be producing plenty of insulin but have insulin resistance. Both are considered type 2. If you produce no insulin you are type 1. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending a low carbo diet for > diabetics. > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics. > And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system. > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? > Gravel? > I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high > carbo. I can certainly see the advantages of eating less carbo and > using less insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me. > For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine > that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it > would be healthier to just give in and take insulin. > I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. > Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely > astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some really good numbers. > That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, > but I’m hoping to in a few months. > That rambled. Sorry. > Jon
Hi there Jon, Diet is a life style choice, and not one that most of us like to question. You need to eat what best suits you. However, there are a few things that you need to be fully aware of. Some divide what is called vegetarian eating into two classes, Vegetarians (mostly vegetable source food with a little animal sourced food) and Vegans (absolutely no animal sourced food at all). Then there’s the ovo-vegetarians (eggs allowed), and so on, with many variations. Some allow fish, others chicken, or dairy, and so on. So the question is, where do you lie in this sliding scale? Because if you opt for the Vegan approach, there are certain nutrition essentials that need to be allowed and compensated for. As Julie mentioned, insufficient iron can lead to anaemia. Meat contains certain ESSENTIAL amino acids, and other important nutriments. Note the emphasis on essential. One has to seek out suitable substitutes to replace the missing elements. The religious group, Seventh Day Adventists, have been at this for some time, and can give some helpful ideas for a balanced diet. (This is not intended as any kind of religious comment or advocacy.) Some people eat soy as a protein substitute. There’s things to consider and learn if one wants to maintain good health. As for Type 2, yes you are corrrect, it is basically an insulin resistance problem, and the injection of insulin does help overcome the resistance by sheer quantity of free circulating insulin. The resistance however, remains. One question that may be relevant in your case, is whether you are truly a T2, or a late developing T1. Only time and a good doctor can determine this. Your carbohydrate intake sounds reasonable to me, but do try to avoid those fast acting ones, or the excessive intake of any carbs. Even a T1 on insulin can develop insulin resistance if they have too high a level of carb intake! Some people have called this T3. A double whammy that is much better avoided. Exercise is always a good idea for both T1’s and T2’s, as well. As Old Al says, muscles are like gold for a diabetic. I notice that you say; > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics. > And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system.
and then move straight to; > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to
eat? How about a middle ground? Like a MODERATE amount of protein, fats and carbs? Not excessive, not "low"? Why must it be one extreme or the other? What’s more, there are OILS that have been shown to actually improve the health of the cardio-vascular system, like the ones found in cold-water fish, or vegetable ones like olive oil or in avocados or nuts They are still classed as "fats", but good ones. Lean meat contains minimal amounts of saturated fats, and recent research is now not so sure that they are as bad as once believed. Eggs were once a "baddy", now they are recommended in moderation. I like the moderation in all things approach. An old idea, but a goodie still. Annette — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Is there a way to determine which you are doing? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I realize that the protein and fat subject borders on being a religious > subject, so I’ll just stick to my "beliefs" and not foment an argument. > >Maybe maybe not.. depends on the person. Taking insulin is not enough > for > >many because their problem is they are insulin resistant. > Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought all T2 was insulin resistance – at least > until > the beta cells burn out. Wrong?? > I don’t think so. You might be producing some but not enough insulin. You > might be producing plenty of insulin but have insulin resistance. Both are > considered type 2. If you produce no insulin you are type 1. > — > Type 2 > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
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> The Veggie burgers were "Amy’s" from Trader Joe’s.
I haven’t tried those. I do love that brand of cheese enchiladas though. Just wish they were easier to find! — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
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Would she have been better off without insulin? I think the operative words here are "ate anything she wanted." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My grandmother was one who thought she would use the miracles of modern > chemistry to control her BG. She ate anything she wanted and constantly > tested to see how much insulin she needed. She also went blind, had her > legs amputated, and died well before her time. I wish she was still around. > Bob > > hmmm, your answer poses questions for me. With > > insulin, a diabetic can consume what is considered a > > ‘normal’ amount of carbs in their diet? Then why > > aren’t more people on insulin instead of trying so hard > > to maintain a rigid diet extreme? > Well, for me, I worry about the negative consequences of high amounts of > insulin in the system. My understanding is that it’s bad for the heart. > It’s also much easier, I think, to just eat low carb than have to mess > around with calculating how much carb I’ve eaten, when it will hit my > blood stream, which of various insulins I should inject when… I prefer > to keep it simple. > In addition, I’m trying to lose a little weight, not gain it, and eating > whatever I please and shooting insulin to cover is a great way to gain > weight. > Priscilla > — > The Episcopal Church welcomes you… and you… and you….
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Is there a particular bad side to Metformin? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->… I’m still confused about insulin resistance. I thought all >type 2s, including myself, had insulin resistance. I thought >the extra injected insulin just overcame the resistance. > Hey Jon, > Well many Type 2’s do have insulin resistance at first. You reduce > the insulin resistance, and what you have left, is a person with > easier control. Many find that it’s as simple as losing as little as > 10% of their current weight, that does away with some or even all of > their insulin resistance. I found that for me, losing weight, has > helped a lot in my insulin resistance. I can eat more carbs today, > than I could a year ago. >I may be eating a lot of carbos but I’m concentrating on finding the slow >ones. I eat a lot of brown rice and beans. My bgs are good afterward, but >nobody wants to be in the same room as me. Tonite my veggie burgers and >other veggie junk was slow enough that my 2 hour reading was way higher that >my one hour reading! A first. > Ah this tends to happen from time to time. And you can’t always > figure out why. Might be the liver released a little extra glucose, > might be you had a few more carbs that you thought, might be > gremlins. > Are these home made veggie burgers or the Garden/Boca burger type? I > would like to find a good home made type veggies burger that’s not > too hard to make, so I can do a few up at a time, and have something > quick and easy. And while the farmers markets are still going, now > would be a good time to stock up. Heck even a different/better > version of a store bought veggie burger would nice as well. > — > Terrell > type 2, dumped the metformin > now seeing how well I do without it.
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The Veggie burgers were "Amy’s" from Trader Joe’s. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->… I’m still confused about insulin resistance. I thought all >type 2s, including myself, had insulin resistance. I thought >the extra injected insulin just overcame the resistance. > Hey Jon, > Well many Type 2’s do have insulin resistance at first. You reduce > the insulin resistance, and what you have left, is a person with > easier control. Many find that it’s as simple as losing as little as > 10% of their current weight, that does away with some or even all of > their insulin resistance. I found that for me, losing weight, has > helped a lot in my insulin resistance. I can eat more carbs today, > than I could a year ago. >I may be eating a lot of carbos but I’m concentrating on finding the slow >ones. I eat a lot of brown rice and beans. My bgs are good afterward, but >nobody wants to be in the same room as me. Tonite my veggie burgers and >other veggie junk was slow enough that my 2 hour reading was way higher that >my one hour reading! A first. > Ah this tends to happen from time to time. And you can’t always > figure out why. Might be the liver released a little extra glucose, > might be you had a few more carbs that you thought, might be > gremlins. > Are these home made veggie burgers or the Garden/Boca burger type? I > would like to find a good home made type veggies burger that’s not > too hard to make, so I can do a few up at a time, and have something > quick and easy. And while the farmers markets are still going, now > would be a good time to stock up. Heck even a different/better > version of a store bought veggie burger would nice as well. > — > Terrell > type 2, dumped the metformin > now seeing how well I do without it.
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>I have often thanked my genes…… >I have never had problems with kidneys, etc but I’m not an addict, either. >Generally I think both Atkins and Bernstein had some good ideas and much of the >conventional wisdom is ….unwise? (A couple of days in the hospital on a >"diabetic" diet convinced me of THAT.) >Moderation in everything. >Some in the group have the ability to stick to a regime. Some don’t. Some >need to and some don’t. I just think that "low carb" needn’t be a strait >jacket but can be a source of good ideas and good recipes. >Nan, Type 2
and also your: " I DO NOT, NEVER, EVER, WANT TO BE ON SHOTS. So – I try to be reasonable. The best advice I ever had was to think: SUGAR=CARBS=TROUBLE. I can’t eat beans or potatos or white bread but whole wheat occasionally, lots of vegetables, and meat, cheese, eggs – even cream on the occasional treat of blueberries or blackberries. No problems at all with kidneys or liver. I don’t think all the "experts" are as expert as they think." Hi Nan. You and I think so alike on this it’s scary – how do you see inside my head? Although, with T2 and CLL I don’t really thank my genes:-) Cheers – Alan
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My grandmother was one who thought she would use the miracles of modern chemistry to control her BG. She ate anything she wanted and constantly tested to see how much insulin she needed. She also went blind, had her legs amputated, and died well before her time. I wish she was still around. Bob
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hmmm, your answer poses questions for me. With > insulin, a diabetic can consume what is considered a > ‘normal’ amount of carbs in their diet? Then why > aren’t more people on insulin instead of trying so hard > to maintain a rigid diet extreme? > Well, for me, I worry about the negative consequences of high amounts of > insulin in the system. My understanding is that it’s bad for the heart. > It’s also much easier, I think, to just eat low carb than have to mess > around with calculating how much carb I’ve eaten, when it will hit my > blood stream, which of various insulins I should inject when… I prefer > to keep it simple. > In addition, I’m trying to lose a little weight, not gain it, and eating > whatever I please and shooting insulin to cover is a great way to gain > weight. > Priscilla > — > The Episcopal Church welcomes you… and you… and you….
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>I was diagnosed in my 60s…Type 2, fairly typical. Sugar testing usually runs >between 90 and 110 (altho I can run it up to 160 by pigging out!). >I DO NOT, NEVER, EVER, WANT TO BE ON SHOTS. So – I try to be reasonable. >The best advice I ever had was to think: SUGAR=CARBS=TROUBLE. >I can’t eat beans or potatos or white bread but whole wheat occasionally, lots >of vegetables, and meat, cheese, eggs – even cream on the occasional treat of >blueberries or blackberries. No problems at all with kidneys or liver. >I don’t think all the "experts" are as expert as they think. >Nan, Type 2 since 1990 or so.
I have both problems. My understanding is if you have a problem these touted diets can be a problem. Many diabetics do have these problems that are undiagnosed. I dread the thought of gong on the machine. If anyone has read my posts I am not a fan of Atkins and Bernie. I have no doubt that low carb will provide immediate results and is easy. I am worried about other aspects that become an issue later. Just an unimportant opinion. Guy
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I was diagnosed in my 60s…Type 2, fairly typical. Sugar testing usually runs between 90 and 110 (altho I can run it up to 160 by pigging out!). I DO NOT, NEVER, EVER, WANT TO BE ON SHOTS. So – I try to be reasonable. The best advice I ever had was to think: SUGAR=CARBS=TROUBLE. I can’t eat beans or potatos or white bread but whole wheat occasionally, lots of vegetables, and meat, cheese, eggs – even cream on the occasional treat of blueberries or blackberries. No problems at all with kidneys or liver. I don’t think all the "experts" are as expert as they think. Nan, Type 2 since 1990 or so.
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> I realize that the protein and fat subject borders on being a religious subject, so I’ll just stick to my "beliefs" and not foment an argument. >Maybe maybe not.. depends on the person. Taking insulin is not enough for many because their problem is they are insulin resistant. > Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought all T2 was insulin resistance – at least until > the beta cells burn out. Wrong??
Many type 2 had or have hyperinsulinemia due to insulin resistance – part of syndrome X or metabolic syndrome. Consequently, some type 2 produce more insulin than normies. Since I lost about 40 lbs., I believe my insulin resistance has been greatly reduced. I would venture to say that the type 2s that control with diet and exercise would generally have reduced their insulin resistance substantially. Nevertheless, there is a genetic predisposition toward insulin in the offspring of type 2s whether they are slim or fat. Frank
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I realize that the protein and fat subject borders on being a religious subject, so I’ll just stick to my "beliefs" and not foment an argument. >Maybe maybe not.. depends on the person. Taking insulin is not enough for >many because their problem is they are insulin resistant.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought all T2 was insulin resistance – at least until the beta cells burn out. Wrong?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending a low carbo diet for > diabetics. > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics. > High protein can be bad for "damaged kidneys" it does not damage healthy > kidneys > And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system. > We do? Recent research seems to question that. > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? > Gravel? > Don’t eat "low" fat or protein then > I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high carbo. > I can certainly see the advantages of eating less carbo and using less > insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me. > If you are sucessful why would you change? The point is don’t get it in > your mind that your diet is more healthy than someone else’s. > For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine > that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it > would be healthier to just give in and take insulin. > Maybe maybe not.. depends on the person. Taking insulin is not enough for > many because their problem is they are insulin resistant. > I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. > Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely > astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some really good numbers. > That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, > but I’m hoping to in a few months. > That rambled. Sorry. > No problem..
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hmmm, your answer poses questions for me. With insulin, a diabetic can consume what is considered a ‘normal’ amount of carbs in their diet? Then why aren’t more people on insulin instead of trying so hard to maintain a rigid diet extreme? Bonita
> This is one of those threads that could easily get
heated — it’s close to a > religious conversation. > Regarding protein: I’m not aware of any research
that shows that diabetics > in control are at a higher risk of kidney disease than the general > population. > Regarding fat: There is research that shows that a
low-carb, moderate fat > diet improves cardiovascular factors:
http://www.medicinedirect.com/journal/journal/article?acronym=AJM&for… > (you’ll probably have to cut and paste the link
carefully to get the whole > article) > Regarding carbohydrate: Diabetics know what damage too many carbs can > cause. > You should do what works for you — I try to eat as
many carbs as I can and > stay within my target of <110 before meals and <120 2 hours after meals. > That gives me a diet that’s roughly 30% carbs and the remainder coming > usually equally from fats & proteins (somewhat
weighted towards fats). > If you want to keep to 60% carbs, I think insulin is
a good idea and hope it > works well for you. > — > T2 – HbA1c: 4.7% > http://www.bollar.org/diabetes.htm > I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending
a low carbo diet for > diabetics. > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should
avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics. > And we all know that excess fats, particularly
animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system. > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? > Gravel? > I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high > carbo. I can certainly see the advantages of
eating less carbo and > using less insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me. > For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine > that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it > would be healthier to just give in and take insulin. > I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. > Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely > astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some
really good numbers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, > but I’m hoping to in a few months.
Response:
> Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought all T2 was insulin resistance – at least until > the beta cells burn out. Wrong??
I think the problem is the degree of resistance.
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> I’ve found baked potatoes, slobbered with salsa and hot > sauce, to be a pretty decent, not too fast carbo. I can also get away with > french toast with really seedy whole wheat bread. And I found real maple syrup > to be noticably slower than the fake stuff – but I’m not recommending this.
baked potato is like sugar for the most part, real fast.. butter would slow it a bit.. salsa would not.. French Toast? Not even gonna comment..
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>> I’ve found baked potatoes, slobbered with salsa and hot > sauce, to be a pretty decent, not too fast carbo. I can also get away with > french toast with really seedy whole wheat bread. And I found real maple syrup > to be noticably slower than the fake stuff – but I’m not recommending this. >baked potato is like sugar for the most part, real fast.. butter would >slow it a bit.. salsa would not.. >French Toast? >Not even gonna comment..
I get an odd one with mashed spuds. Like many here, straight mashed potato to me is like eating raw sugar as far as my meter goes; if I had a half-cup for breakfast (even with oil as hash browns) I go over 10 (180), same as a slice of toast with butter/marg. However, if I make up salmon patties for breakfast (cup of mash potato, 100g salmon, 30g cheese, chopped onion/peppers/herbs/ and dry fry as burgers, makes four, eat two) I hardly ever go over 6.5 (115). I realise the fat in the cheese and the oil in the salmon have some effect – but it’s a pretty dramatic difference. Any experts able to tell me why? Cheers – Alan
Response:
Thank you. I clearly need to bone up on triglycerides. I’m still confused about insulin resistance. I thought all type 2s, including myself, had insulin resistance. I thought the extra injected insulin just overcame the resistance. I may be eating a lot of carbos but I’m concentrating on finding the slow ones. I eat a lot of brown rice and beans. My bgs are good afterward, but nobody wants to be in the same room as me. Tonite my veggie burgers and other veggie junk was slow enough that my 2 hour reading was way higher that my one hour reading! A first. Someone, I think you, mentioned that some supposedly fast carbos aren’t that fast – like potatoes. I’ve found baked potatoes, slobbered with salsa and hot sauce, to be a pretty decent, not too fast carbo. I can also get away with french toast with really seedy whole wheat bread. And I found real maple syrup to be noticably slower than the fake stuff – but I’m not recommending this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending a low carbo diet for > diabetics. > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics. > And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system. > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? > Gravel? > That’s why there’s no one diet that works for all of us. > I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high > carbo. I can certainly see the advantages of eating less carbo and > using less insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me. > I used to be a vegetarian, but found it difficult to eat that way as a > diabetic. I don’t use insulin. I also had terrible trouble with anemia > since being diagnosed with diabetes, so finally began attempting to eat meat > twice a week. I still eat mainly vegetarian meals though. > For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine > that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it > would be healthier to just give in and take insulin. > I don’t avoid carbs. In fact, I eat more carbs than many here. But less > carbs than I used to. The problem is if you have type 2 like I do, you > can’t *just* take insulin. Many of us type 2s have insulin resistance. Our > bodies produce enough insulin, but we can’t use it effectively. So adding > insulin isn’t always the answer. There are just too many variables to this > darned thing! Also, many of us type 2s have a problem with high > triglycerides, and this is exacerbated by eating too many carbs, > particularly of the refined variety. > I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. > Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely > astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some really good numbers. > That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, > but I’m hoping to in a few months. > That’s great! I’m glad you found something that worked for you. > — > Type 2 > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
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The issue of diets is confusing. It seem to be more opinions than scientific facts. It is made more complex by the variety of commercial operations publishing diets to make a buck. I have no idea what the perfect diet would be, So I pick a "variety food consumption" that seems to be reasonable. BUT as a diabetic I limit quantities to what is indicated for me. I have given up "entertainment eating". It usually leads to excesses. That is for the people that be diabetics in the future. There is no one diet or system that fits everyone. We need to talk about the merits of each food without a gross bias. From the information we make our,choices and live with what happens. Like most of life. Guy
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> I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending a low carbo diet for > diabetics. > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics. > And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system. > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? > Gravel?
That’s why there’s no one diet that works for all of us. > I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high > carbo. I can certainly see the advantages of eating less carbo and > using less insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me.
I used to be a vegetarian, but found it difficult to eat that way as a diabetic. I don’t use insulin. I also had terrible trouble with anemia since being diagnosed with diabetes, so finally began attempting to eat meat twice a week. I still eat mainly vegetarian meals though. > For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine > that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it > would be healthier to just give in and take insulin.
I don’t avoid carbs. In fact, I eat more carbs than many here. But less carbs than I used to. The problem is if you have type 2 like I do, you can’t *just* take insulin. Many of us type 2s have insulin resistance. Our bodies produce enough insulin, but we can’t use it effectively. So adding insulin isn’t always the answer. There are just too many variables to this darned thing! Also, many of us type 2s have a problem with high triglycerides, and this is exacerbated by eating too many carbs, particularly of the refined variety. > I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. > Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely > astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some really good numbers. > That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, > but I’m hoping to in a few months.
That’s great! I’m glad you found something that worked for you. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Response:
> I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending a low carbo diet for > diabetics. > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics.
High protein can be bad for "damaged kidneys" it does not damage healthy kidneys > And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system.
We do? Recent research seems to question that. > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? > Gravel?
Don’t eat "low" fat or protein then > I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high carbo. > I can certainly see the advantages of eating less carbo and using less > insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me.
If you are sucessful why would you change? The point is don’t get it in your mind that your diet is more healthy than someone else’s. > For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine > that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it > would be healthier to just give in and take insulin.
Maybe maybe not.. depends on the person. Taking insulin is not enough for many because their problem is they are insulin resistant. > I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. > Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely > astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some really good numbers. > That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, > but I’m hoping to in a few months. > That rambled. Sorry.
No problem..
Response:
I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending a low carbo diet for diabetics. I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for diabetics. And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very dangerous to the cardio-vascular system. So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? Gravel? I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high carbo. I can certainly see the advantages of eating less carbo and using less insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me. For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it would be healthier to just give in and take insulin. I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some really good numbers. That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, but I’m hoping to in a few months. That rambled. Sorry. Jon
Response:
This is one of those threads that could easily get heated — it’s close to a religious conversation. Regarding protein: I’m not aware of any research that shows that diabetics in control are at a higher risk of kidney disease than the general population. Regarding fat: There is research that shows that a low-carb, moderate fat diet improves cardiovascular factors: http://www.medicinedirect.com/journal/journal/article?acronym=AJM&for… (you’ll probably have to cut and paste the link carefully to get the whole article) Regarding carbohydrate: Diabetics know what damage too many carbs can cause. You should do what works for you — I try to eat as many carbs as I can and stay within my target of <110 before meals and <120 2 hours after meals. That gives me a diet that’s roughly 30% carbs and the remainder coming usually equally from fats & proteins (somewhat weighted towards fats). If you want to keep to 60% carbs, I think insulin is a good idea and hope it works well for you. — T2 – HbA1c: 4.7% http://www.bollar.org/diabetes.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve noticed many people on this forum recommending a low carbo diet for > diabetics. > I’ve also seen it written that diabetics should avoid high protein due > to potential kidney damage, which can be a serious problem for > diabetics. > And we all know that excess fats, particularly animal fats, are very > dangerous to the cardio-vascular system. > So if one eats low fat, low protein and low carbo, what’s left to eat? > Gravel? > I’m personally sort of vegetarian and therefore I eat fairly high > carbo. I can certainly see the advantages of eating less carbo and > using less insulin, but this choice seems healthier to me. > For someone who’s on pills or just using diet and exercise, I imagine > that avoiding carbo would make more sense. But I almost wonder if it > would be healthier to just give in and take insulin. > I was fighting with using pills and using d&e till fairly recently. > Since I went on insulin – and particularly since I got some extremely > astute advice from Old Al – I’ve been running some really good numbers. > That’s only been about 2 weeks, so I don’t have any A1Cs to brag about, > but I’m hoping to in a few months.
Response:
I am a type 2 diabetic. Diagnosed a year or so ago. Does it matter how you get your carbs if your testing is within tolerance? I am not talking about fat, other than fat. For example, is it ok to have a piece of cake if your bs reading is still ok? Can this be a long term problem if repeated often even if your weight stays ok? I am on the diet and exercise control and doing ok.
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when you ad cake to your diet you are taking away other more nutritional foods. so do it with caution. the best advice I can give you is to ask a dietitian to fit snacks into your diet plan. good luck to you. http://www.diabetes.org/main/application/commercewf — Sushi-Boy DIABETES for some its a curse for me its a cure – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am a type 2 diabetic. Diagnosed a year or so ago. > Does it matter how you get your carbs if your testing is within tolerance? I > am not talking about fat, other than fat. > For example, is it ok to have a piece of cake if your bs reading is still > ok? Can this be a long term problem if repeated often even if your weight > stays ok? I am on the diet and exercise control and doing ok.
Response:
>I am a type 2 diabetic. Diagnosed a year or so ago. >Does it matter how you get your carbs if your testing is within tolerance? I >am not talking about fat, other than fat.
Nothing wrong with fat. It can moderate a spike nicely, just like fiber can. >For example, is it ok to have a piece of cake if your bs reading is still >ok?
Why wouldn’t it be? If it doesn’t spike you, why not? (You can really have a piece of cake and not spike, and you’re doing just diet and exercise? I’m jealous!) > Can this be a long term problem if repeated often even if your weight >stays ok? I am on the diet and exercise control and doing ok.
What does your meter say? How’s your A1c? That’s the bottom line. Are you keeping tight control at 1 and 2 hours PP? How are your fasting numbers? You’re the one with the most information about your body and how it reacts to various foods. Priscilla — "I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!" – Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause
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> I am a type 2 diabetic. Diagnosed a year or so ago. > Does it matter how you get your carbs if your testing is within tolerance? I > am not talking about fat, other than fat. > For example, is it ok to have a piece of cake if your bs reading is still > ok? Can this be a long term problem if repeated often even if your weight > stays ok? I am on the diet and exercise control and doing ok.
The main concern of any diet should be proper nutrition. Nobody is giong to tell you that cake is good for you. But if you can fit it into your diet occasionally and your BG is still fine, then more power to you. I eat a small piece of chocolate several times a week. Works for me! — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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> when you ad cake to your diet you are taking away > other more nutritional foods. so do it with caution. > the best advice I can give you is to ask a dietitian to fit > snacks into your diet plan. good luck to you.
Again… Why would he need to ask a dietician about this? He obviously knows how to fit it in and his BG is fine. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
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> I am a type 2 diabetic. Diagnosed a year or so ago. > Does it matter how you get your carbs if your testing is within tolerance? I > am not talking about fat, other than fat. > For example, is it ok to have a piece of cake if your bs reading is still > ok? Can this be a long term problem if repeated often even if your weight > stays ok? I am on the diet and exercise control and doing ok.
LOL If you do, just don’t brag about it here. That is unless you love being made to feel guilty. — Chuck Prejudice can be divided into pre-judgments (easier than thinking) and bigotry (easier to feel good about oneself when one can push down another group). All outgoing messages checked by Norton AntiVirus.
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Julie, Me too. I have a half of a Fifty/50 chocolate bar as a "reward" when I do well all week. (15 g carbs) Not every week, more like every other week. I have had no problems with it. It helps me, I don’t feel so "deprived". Linda
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am a type 2 diabetic. Diagnosed a year or so ago. > Does it matter how you get your carbs if your testing is within tolerance? > I > am not talking about fat, other than fat. > For example, is it ok to have a piece of cake if your bs reading is still > ok? Can this be a long term problem if repeated often even if your weight > stays ok? I am on the diet and exercise control and doing ok. > The main concern of any diet should be proper nutrition. Nobody is giong to > tell you that cake is good for you. But if you can fit it into your diet > occasionally and your BG is still fine, then more power to you. I eat a > small piece of chocolate several times a week. Works for me! > — > Type 2 > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
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I eat a square of Lindt 70% chocolate every night. It comes in at 2 gms of carbs, tastes wonderful, and doesn’t give me the cravings that sugar alcohols do. It doesn’t do anything to my blood sugar. A single square of Valrhona or Lake Champlain dark chocolate works too. These are such rich yummy chocolates (and so expensive!) that a little bit goes a long way. — Jenny 168.5/145/145 Achieved Second Goal! 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/jennypics.htm Before and After Photos http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Julie, > Me too. I have a half of a Fifty/50 chocolate bar as a "reward" when I do > well all week. (15 g carbs) Not every week, more like every other week. I > have had no problems with it. > It helps me, I don’t feel so "deprived". > Linda > > I am a type 2 diabetic. Diagnosed a year or so ago. > > Does it matter how you get your carbs if your testing is within > tolerance? > I > > am not talking about fat, other than fat. > > For example, is it ok to have a piece of cake if your bs reading is > still > > ok? Can this be a long term problem if repeated often even if your > weight > > stays ok? I am on the diet and exercise control and doing ok. > The main concern of any diet should be proper nutrition. Nobody is giong > to > tell you that cake is good for you. But if you can fit it into your diet > occasionally and your BG is still fine, then more power to you. I eat a > small piece of chocolate several times a week. Works for me! > — > Type 2 > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
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> What does your meter say? How’s your A1c? That’s the bottom line. Are > you keeping tight control at 1 and 2 hours PP? How are your fasting numbers?
What is PP?
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I dont believe in deprivation, If I am then I personally are doomed to fail, Therefore, I portion control, I will go out for dinner and always have dessert. I will limit the carbs in the meal and then have about a third of a slice of say cheesecake, I am almost always within the right range, Being diabetic doesnt mean giving up living and enjoying as long as you ,modify to fit those carbs into your diet, I wouldnt eat a whole baked potato and then have a piece of cake, but a third of a potato and a third of a piece of reguar cheesecake is fine, I find cheesecake is one of the easiest things because there are no crusts, I am also able to get deicious sugar free cheesecake which does nothing to my numbers. Portion control is what works for me, Now you have to figure out what works for you. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
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:> What does your meter say? How’s your A1c? That’s the bottom line. Are :> you keeping tight control at 1 and 2 hours PP? How are your fasting : numbers? :> : What is PP? Post prandial, or after your meal. Wendy Baker
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Post prandial. After eating. :-)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is PP?
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PP is post prandial and that means after eating, We use the number two hours after eating a meal and that shoud be 120 and under to be in a non diabetic state if you are a type II. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
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Thank you all. I have found a wonderful new resource, this newsgroup, to help me manage my diabetes. Regards, Jim
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What is the best diet for a normal dog with no medical problems?
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Natural food diet.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is the best diet for a normal dog with no medical problems?
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Natural food diet? Is there a website that I can go to for more info Thanks
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Natural food diet. > What is the best diet for a normal dog with no medical problems?
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> Natural food diet? Is there a website that I can go to for > more info
Here’s a good starting point for information on a BARF (Bones and Raw Food) diet: http://www.barfers.com/ — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.
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I used to give my cats science diet as recommended by my vet. 6 months later my oldest one, about 15 years old died from kidney failure. This was about 5 years ago. When the senior diet came along I changed my other two cats to this. A couple of weeks ago I lost another to kidney failure. She was only 12. Does anyone have any similar experiences? It may be coincidental, but a friend also lost her cat after changing to Science diet, and I have now introduced traditional tinned food for one meal for my remaining (and lonely) cat. My vet denies there is a link between the science diet and kidney failure. Thanks Lindsay
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I personally doubt that there is a link between feeding the Science brand and your cats’ kidney problems. However, if you search this newsgroup, you will find there has been some discussion about dry food vs. wet. Were you feeding only dry food? There is a growing body of evidence that feeding dry food exclusively increases the probability of a cat developing a urinary tract infection (UTI). However, that increased probability isn’t due to a single type of dry food, although there are some that are better than others. Science is a reasonably good quality food, I believe. So, the next question is what type of kidney failure was involved. Did your cats have chronic renal failure (CRF), or did they develop the problem from a too-far-gone UTI? Left untreated, UTIs will result in a more acute onset renal failure and death. If the UTI scenario was involved, then a dry food diet may have contributed, but not necessarily a particular brand. I hope this info helps – others in this group may have better info to provide. You can learn more about kidney problems at several different web sites. Try: http://maxshouse.com, or http://www.vetinfo.com, or http://members.xoom.com/PKellyDVM/FelineHandouts.htm All of these sites have lots of good info on a variety of things. I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your cats… Laura Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
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Mine have been on Science Diet for ten years, and test fine. There truly is no link to kidney disease or failure and Science Diet. To lose a cat to kidney failure in that time frame, there had to be undiagnosed problems going on for some time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I used to give my cats science diet as recommended by my vet. 6 months > later my oldest one, about 15 years old died from kidney failure. > This was about 5 years ago. When the senior diet came along I changed my > other two cats to this. A couple of weeks ago I lost another to kidney > failure. She was only 12. Does anyone have any similar experiences? It > may be coincidental, but a friend also lost her cat after changing to > Science diet, and I have now introduced traditional tinned food for one meal > for my remaining (and lonely) cat. My vet denies there is a link between > the science diet and kidney failure. Thanks Lindsay
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>his was about 5 years ago. When the senior diet came along I changed my >other two cats to this. A couple of weeks ago I lost another to kidney >failure. She was only 12. Does anyone have any similar experiences? It >may be coincidental, but a friend also lost her cat after changing to >Science diet, and I have now introduced traditional tinned food for one meal >for my remaining (and lonely) cat. My vet denies there is a link between >the science diet and kidney failure. Thanks Lindsay
There is some suspected link between feeding a diet of dry food only, and kidney failure. You are smart to start feeding tinned food as well; this is a better choice to prevent kidney problems. I read about a group of breeders who suspected Science Diet to be responsible for early cancer deaths in many of their cats, because it contains the preservative ethoxyquin, but that’s not actually been proven. yngver (delete "nojunk" to e-mail)
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Can someone suggest what to feed a 12 year old poodle with early kidney disease?.On the Vets suggeston we have allready stopped red meat and are now using special diets.Can we use white meat or fish? without any harm? Thank you. D.S.
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No you can’t. Any meat added of any kind will increase levels of phosphorous in the diet. Follow the vets advice EXACTLY. The difference is extreme. Renal failure dogs in a recent study fed Prescription Diet k/d lived an average of 594 days post diagnosis. Those fed a normal food lived an average of 188 days. The k/d dogs also had half as many uremic crises over their life spans. This is not the time to disregard the vets advice and play around. Stick to the prescribed diet strictly and without deviation.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can someone suggest what to feed a 12 year old poodle with early kidney > disease?.On the Vets suggeston we have allready stopped red meat and are now > using special diets.Can we use white meat or fish? without any harm? > Thank you. > D.S.
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> Hi All: > I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody.
Good for you! I get excellent results from diet, myself, and am always interested in anyone else’s observations. Keep them coming. Best wishes, Terry — To e-mail me replace "spamsucks" with "azstarnet.com"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi All: > I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody. > Brian S > Brian,
Please keep us informed. I would love to know the results. It seems that something triggers it off. Regards Rossy Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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> I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody.
The details of your diet would be very helpful and greatly appreciated. Andy Kanter http://www.clearskin.com
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I can go 1 day with a diet routine and after that my desires win out… Mmmm , Those yummy Mc.Donalds french fries, and Big Mac…..(I feel like homer simpson.) ANd then those Klondike ice cream bars… THeir
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Well there you have it in a nutshell. Wheat in the buns, red meat (is it real), a dairy product with caffeine in the chocolate coating……and we musn’t forget a little grease on the fries to make it go down smooth. Will that be coke or root beer? Seriously though…..I’m the same……every now and then I just have to dive into the junk. Hey, you have to let go once in a while. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I can go 1 day with a diet routine and after that my desires win out… > Mmmm , Those yummy Mc.Donalds french fries, and Big Mac…..(I feel like > homer simpson.) ANd then those Klondike ice cream bars… THeir
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Hi All: I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this sounds interesting to anybody. Brian S
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Brian- I’d love to hear what you’ve been eating. I’ve been on the Pagano diet for about 8 weeks and can see results, but am wondering how much I can play around with it and still continue to clear. Thanks-Ellen Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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It certainly does. The more input we get on trigger foods the better. Thomas the German – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi All: > I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody. > Brian S
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Hi, Dan! > The quote has been taken out of context. The letter of > help was to a person experiencing extreme itching problems. > You are correct…acid neutralizing agents were recommended > for itching…not psoriasis.
I don’t know if sodium carbonate (note carbonate, not bicarbonate) would relieve itching. It is simply used to dissolve scales, nothing else. It’s an easy way of doing it. But, of course getting rid of the scaling might relieve the itching when you smoothen the skin with moisturizers afterwards… > I see much evidence here of people trying deperately to > cope with an aggravating and sometimes debilitating problem… > psoriasis. However, the evidence does not qualify as scientific.
Right, it’s anecdotal experiences more than "evidence"… > "Seeing is believing."…even scientific evidence can be > inaccurate.
Of course!!! 
> I hope you are doing well and learn much from some of your > posts.
Ditto! > I plan to try the "sodium bicarbonate" the next time > I itch severely.
I wouldn’t expect too much itch relief from it, since that isn’t what it is used for… But, it works well as a scale dissolver. We call it washing soda here, and we get it in the supermarket. It has nothing to do with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). It is a cheap remedy. Add 2-3 tablespoons into the bath tub. It also works as a water softener, so it is very comfy to bathe in. Heck, that alone is worth using it If you want to try something new for itching, why don’t you go to my homepage, recipe page. There you’ll find the recipe for wheat bran (note: wheat, not oat!) baths. That is certainly worth a try, and is really comfy when the itching is bad. I have enjoyed many of them, and they’re easy to prepare. If your skin is very dry, add some bath oil too. Take care!!! Hope you’re doing well!!!! — Best regards, Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen, <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/> _Aase Marit_ ))))))
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Terry, > I have seen considerable evidence here that "acid" is a > part of the psoriasis "equation", in many cases. Much testimony > from this group hints at acidosis.(AM’s "sodium bicarbonate baths", > etc.) > Hi, Dan! > My sodium bicarbonate baths don’t help on the P. It simply dissolves the > scales!!! I have never claimed otherwise. > Also, what you see here is not evidence, it really isn’t… It’s only > people’s experience or whatever to call it. Not that experience isn’t > important, it really is, but it sure isn’t evidence!!!! > Hope you’re doing well! > — > Best regards, Visit my homepage: > Med vennlig hilsen, <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/> > _Aase Marit_ ))))))
11-12-97 Hi AM, The quote has been taken out of context. The letter of help was to a person experiencing extreme itching problems. You are correct…acid neutralizing agents were recommended for itching…not psoriasis. I see much evidence here of people trying deperately to cope with an aggravating and sometimes debilitating problem… psoriasis. However, the evidence does not qualify as scientific. "Seeing is believing."…even scientific evidence can be inaccurate. I hope you are doing well and learn much from some of your posts. I plan to try the "sodium bicarbonate" the next time I itch severely. Dan
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> I hope you are doing well and learn much from some of your > posts. I plan to try the "sodium bicarbonate" the next time > I itch severely.
Dan, next time, take a look at what you’ve been eating and how it may have changed. Years ago, I was told by a derm at U. of Oregon that the itching is an allergic reaction. Best wishes, Terry — Legitimate e-mailers (not spammers) should remove the "spamsucks" and replace it with "azstarnet" in my address.
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> Terry, > I have seen considerable evidence here that "acid" is a > part of the psoriasis "equation", in many cases. Much testimony > from this group hints at acidosis.(AM’s "sodium bicarbonate baths", > etc.)
Hi, Dan! My sodium bicarbonate baths don’t help on the P. It simply dissolves the scales!!! I have never claimed otherwise. Also, what you see here is not evidence, it really isn’t… It’s only people’s experience or whatever to call it. Not that experience isn’t important, it really is, but it sure isn’t evidence!!!! Hope you’re doing well! — Best regards, Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen, <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/> _Aase Marit_ ))))))
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>Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that >works well for him. I will find it if you like.
You would find it on my web site, at http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/terry.html but AOL claims to be having "local server problems" at the moment, and my entire site is down. This really bites. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
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Hi, Josh Diet’s the only thing that’s ever worked well for me. Here’s a summary of my experience. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/terry.html Best wishes, Terry — To send friendly e-mail, replace "nospam" with "ttowne1" and "emptymind" with "mindspring.
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Chicken-pox? so did I at 10 years of age. Is there a link with this disease possibly? New evidence has recently come up about chickenpox and older people. (see this BBC article on 1st May 2002). http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1961000/1961565.stm "Vaccinating children against chickenpox – an idea gaining favour in many countries – could lead to the millions of cases of shingles in older people, say UK researchers" Maybe we get psoriasis instead? Re diet: I found that non-dairy acidophilus from a health food shop had a great effect on my psoriasis. Maddie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have been to a derm, but that was a while ago. I plan on going soon since > my P is more visible now. > I was only sick once in my life: Had chicken pox when I was around a year > old and thats it (and a fever about 3 years ago for 2 days). I have never > had antibiotics in my life, or any other sort of drug intented to aid > healing (other than aspirin/tylenol for a headache ;-P ) > Thank you I will check that site out 
> shohei > > >Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. > My > > >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. > Hi Shohei, > First a question or two. Did you have strep and take any > antibiotics prior to P onset? Has your P been diagnosed > by a derm? If yes then a diet that aims to restore colon > function is helpful. > Here is the site where i got mine functioning better > which indirectly helps the autoimmunity factors, IMO. > www.thewholewhey.com ( i would buy the book first > and try to understand it first before making a decision > to go this way.) > > Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry > > about. > > Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that > > diet has nothing to do with psoriasis. > Right. As most of em don’t do much at all. > Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that > works well for him. I will find it if you like. > > However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment > > has other theories. > Also true and since the alts haven’t any idea how to truly > re-establish good bacteria in the colon via an acidifying > protocol such as www.thewholewhey.com ,they are mostly > worthless. Not that some alt diets followed to ad nauseam > won’t up regulate some healthly changes over a long > period of time. (hence these folks become zealots) > Notice my zealotry for instance with whey as it works, > and in a much shorter framework. More bang for your > buck in a shorter time frame holds the interest and > with any results keeps you on track. Yet, only the > most serious will be open to this route as few P’s > have found it. > > Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know > > just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing > > way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s > > inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or > > maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is > > the $64,000 question. > So, say the secret word and Groucho and his Duck > get the question ready. Why a duck? > > The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other > > hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a > > dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it > > mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. > > So, back to diet. > > It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis > > see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain > > foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it > > may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change > > their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our > > local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find > > lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it > > better. > Darn and i wanted to be pun-ny instead. Pride of Prankenstein. > > The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, > > psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. > > You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other > > stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe > > thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to > > offer. > Yes, well said. It took me for ever to find the razor to > even attempt to walk on it. > > Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a > > well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, > > psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, > > (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding > > nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another > > popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if > > you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets > > you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like. > Yes, well said. Excess sugar and stress are problems for me first > and dietary omega 6’s and arachidonic Acid (AA) seems to > be a close second. > > More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, > > except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually > > recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of > > those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the > > variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, > > especially when you just have a few spots. > > Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and > > you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here. > Yes, for sure. > And one more site for sugar and AGE’s to chew on. > First a short review: > The accumulating evidence encourages us to consider glucose as not > only the body’s short-term fuel but also a long-term fuel of > atherogenesis. In this view, the sugar becomes harmful through its > transformation into advanced glycation endproducts that not only make > blood vessels inelastic and stenotic but also activate signal pathways > through which long-term inflammation contributes to the pathology. > For intervening, the important points are that the chemical process is > lifelong and spontaneous and that it remains reversible only in its > early stages, becoming progressively less so if it is allowed to > proceed. Our rapidly evolving understanding leads us to the radical > thought that ingestion of preformed glycation end products may be the > worst trigger of vascular diseases. This in turn may imply that among > the known environmental risk factors for atherogenesis, methods of > food preparation must be added to food quantity and composition. As > usual, what is dangerous is excess. At this time in human history, > Western societies overeat. In addition, they have learned to > overprocess their foods beforehand. Alteration of habits, though > difficult, can have the best long-term influence as a preventive > measure, while new drug interventions begin to come into sight. > (For evestm to feast on with the acrylamides as this is > the diet thread.) > randall… less *expensive* free radicals = longer happier life > > J.
— Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Response:
I have been to a derm, but that was a while ago. I plan on going soon since my P is more visible now. I was only sick once in my life: Had chicken pox when I was around a year old and thats it (and a fever about 3 years ago for 2 days). I have never had antibiotics in my life, or any other sort of drug intented to aid healing (other than aspirin/tylenol for a headache ;-P ) Thank you I will check that site out shohei
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My > >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. > Hi Shohei, > First a question or two. Did you have strep and take any > antibiotics prior to P onset? Has your P been diagnosed > by a derm? If yes then a diet that aims to restore colon > function is helpful. > Here is the site where i got mine functioning better > which indirectly helps the autoimmunity factors, IMO. > www.thewholewhey.com ( i would buy the book first > and try to understand it first before making a decision > to go this way.) > Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry > about. > Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that > diet has nothing to do with psoriasis. > Right. As most of em don’t do much at all. > Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that > works well for him. I will find it if you like. > However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment > has other theories. > Also true and since the alts haven’t any idea how to truly > re-establish good bacteria in the colon via an acidifying > protocol such as www.thewholewhey.com ,they are mostly > worthless. Not that some alt diets followed to ad nauseam > won’t up regulate some healthly changes over a long > period of time. (hence these folks become zealots) > Notice my zealotry for instance with whey as it works, > and in a much shorter framework. More bang for your > buck in a shorter time frame holds the interest and > with any results keeps you on track. Yet, only the > most serious will be open to this route as few P’s > have found it. > Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know > just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing > way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s > inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or > maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is > the $64,000 question. > So, say the secret word and Groucho and his Duck > get the question ready. Why a duck? > The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other > hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a > dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it > mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. > So, back to diet. > It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis > see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain > foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it > may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change > their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our > local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find > lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it > better. > Darn and i wanted to be pun-ny instead. Pride of Prankenstein. > The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, > psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. > You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other > stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe > thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to > offer. > Yes, well said. It took me for ever to find the razor to > even attempt to walk on it. > Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a > well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, > psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, > (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding > nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another > popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if > you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets > you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like. > Yes, well said. Excess sugar and stress are problems for me first > and dietary omega 6’s and arachidonic Acid (AA) seems to > be a close second. > More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, > except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually > recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of > those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the > variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, > especially when you just have a few spots. > Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and > you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here. > Yes, for sure. > And one more site for sugar and AGE’s to chew on. > First a short review: > The accumulating evidence encourages us to consider glucose as not > only the body’s short-term fuel but also a long-term fuel of > atherogenesis. In this view, the sugar becomes harmful through its > transformation into advanced glycation endproducts that not only make > blood vessels inelastic and stenotic but also activate signal pathways > through which long-term inflammation contributes to the pathology. > For intervening, the important points are that the chemical process is > lifelong and spontaneous and that it remains reversible only in its > early stages, becoming progressively less so if it is allowed to > proceed. Our rapidly evolving understanding leads us to the radical > thought that ingestion of preformed glycation end products may be the > worst trigger of vascular diseases. This in turn may imply that among > the known environmental risk factors for atherogenesis, methods of > food preparation must be added to food quantity and composition. As > usual, what is dangerous is excess. At this time in human history, > Western societies overeat. In addition, they have learned to > overprocess their foods beforehand. Alteration of habits, though > difficult, can have the best long-term influence as a preventive > measure, while new drug interventions begin to come into sight. > (For evestm to feast on with the acrylamides as this is > the diet thread.) > randall… less *expensive* free radicals = longer happier life > J.
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Hi josh(: I am also a 19 year old…(female) I have just got rid of my 3rd outbreak of guttate psoriasis…it started out like your p …little spots on my scalp…then i was coverd in it the next couple of weeks!!!…I have been into hospital for a month…its not nice): but what can you do……I find that your diet has a lot to do with psoriasis certain foods flare it up.at the moment i am on a strict diet…which seems to help me a hell of a lot i only have about 8 p spots on my body now…….so yes i would say diet helps..cutting things out.Also stress!!!!(: that is a big cause of p…..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone. > Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My > mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. I don’t know what > you people think about diets and its relationship to P. I know I have posted > a message here before and mentioned something about my diet but a person > responded saying it has nothing to do with P. Anyways… getting to the > point: Has anyone tried sticking with macrobiotic foods? My mother said she > used to eat like that until she got busy, and blah blah blah. She thinks my > "bad" eating habits cause my P to get worse, but I don’t. I have tried not > eating junk food etc for a month with no major results before. > comments/advice greatly appreciated > josh
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> >Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets.
Hi Shohei, First a question or two. Did you have strep and take any antibiotics prior to P onset? Has your P been diagnosed by a derm? If yes then a diet that aims to restore colon function is helpful. Here is the site where i got mine functioning better which indirectly helps the autoimmunity factors, IMO. www.thewholewhey.com ( i would buy the book first and try to understand it first before making a decision to go this way.) > Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry > about. > Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that > diet has nothing to do with psoriasis.
Right. As most of em don’t do much at all. Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that works well for him. I will find it if you like. > However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment > has other theories.
Also true and since the alts haven’t any idea how to truly re-establish good bacteria in the colon via an acidifying protocol such as www.thewholewhey.com ,they are mostly worthless. Not that some alt diets followed to ad nauseam won’t up regulate some healthly changes over a long period of time. (hence these folks become zealots) Notice my zealotry for instance with whey as it works, and in a much shorter framework. More bang for your buck in a shorter time frame holds the interest and with any results keeps you on track. Yet, only the most serious will be open to this route as few P’s have found it. > Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know > just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing > way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s > inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or > maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is > the $64,000 question.
So, say the secret word and Groucho and his Duck get the question ready. Why a duck? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other > hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a > dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it > mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. > So, back to diet. > It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis > see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain > foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it > may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change > their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our > local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find > lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it > better.
Darn and i wanted to be pun-ny instead. Pride of Prankenstein. > The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, > psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. > You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other > stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe > thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to > offer.
Yes, well said. It took me for ever to find the razor to even attempt to walk on it. > Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a > well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, > psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, > (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding > nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another > popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if > you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets > you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like.
Yes, well said. Excess sugar and stress are problems for me first and dietary omega 6’s and arachidonic Acid (AA) seems to be a close second. > More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, > except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually > recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of > those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the > variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, > especially when you just have a few spots. > Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and > you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here.
Yes, for sure. And one more site for sugar and AGE’s to chew on. First a short review: The accumulating evidence encourages us to consider glucose as not only the body’s short-term fuel but also a long-term fuel of atherogenesis. In this view, the sugar becomes harmful through its transformation into advanced glycation endproducts that not only make blood vessels inelastic and stenotic but also activate signal pathways through which long-term inflammation contributes to the pathology. For intervening, the important points are that the chemical process is lifelong and spontaneous and that it remains reversible only in its early stages, becoming progressively less so if it is allowed to proceed. Our rapidly evolving understanding leads us to the radical thought that ingestion of preformed glycation end products may be the worst trigger of vascular diseases. This in turn may imply that among the known environmental risk factors for atherogenesis, methods of food preparation must be added to food quantity and composition. As usual, what is dangerous is excess. At this time in human history, Western societies overeat. In addition, they have learned to overprocess their foods beforehand. Alteration of habits, though difficult, can have the best long-term influence as a preventive measure, while new drug interventions begin to come into sight. (For evestm to feast on with the acrylamides as this is the diet thread.) randall… less *expensive* free radicals = longer happier life – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> J.
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Hi everyone. Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. I don’t know what you people think about diets and its relationship to P. I know I have posted a message here before and mentioned something about my diet but a person responded saying it has nothing to do with P. Anyways… getting to the point: Has anyone tried sticking with macrobiotic foods? My mother said she used to eat like that until she got busy, and blah blah blah. She thinks my "bad" eating habits cause my P to get worse, but I don’t. I have tried not eating junk food etc for a month with no major results before. comments/advice greatly appreciated josh
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>Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets.
Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry about. Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that diet has nothing to do with psoriasis. However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment has other theories. Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is the $64,000 question. The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. So, back to diet. It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it better. The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to offer. Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like. More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, especially when you just have a few spots. Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here. J.
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I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California Natural. They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health and poor digestion. Dogs with chronic skin problems: itching, flaking, red, oozing hot spots, etc. have turned completely around and grown new healthy coats after changing to Hund ‘n Flocken in approx. 6 weeks time. Its also important to supplement with vitamins, minerals, and food enzymes: such as Sea Meal by Solid Gold
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>I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my >grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California >Natural. >They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health >and poor digestion. Dogs with chronic skin problems: itching, flaking, >red, oozing hot spots, etc. have turned completely around and grown new >healthy coats after changing to Hund ‘n Flocken in approx. 6 weeks time. >Its also important to supplement with vitamins, minerals, and food >enzymes: such as Sea Meal by Solid Gold
You forget to say what ingredients they have in them from most to least please? And if those dogs are so good then there should be no need for any supplements at all they should be a complete and balanced diet?
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>I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my >grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California >Natural. >They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health >and poor digestion.
How do you know this? Are you a nutritionist? How many classes in canine nutrition have you had? Have you ever heard of "ingredient splitting"? .. this is a commonly used marketing "trick" where the manufacturer splits corn into corn gluten, corn meal, or wheat into wheat bran, flour, etc. to make Chicken or Beef or whatever appear like the largest ingredient and get listed first on the label. It is all marketing. Anyone can make pet food, slap a label on the bag, and sell it. No feeding trials are required. This means some products on the shelves have never even been fed to an animal before, and the company wants you to believe it is the "best" for your pet. Look for an AAFCO statement on the pet food label. Look for the word "feeding" somewhere in that statement. This does not guarantee a well balanced absorbable, digestable diet, but it at least means the company has invested time, effort, and money into feeding the food to a group of animals for a short period of time, and the animals have not shown any nutritional deficits following the feeding trial. I am amazed at how many "pet foods" on the store shelves don’t have such a statement. Look at "treats" too. You may be suprised.
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>I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my >grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California >Natural. >They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health >and poor digestion. Dogs with chronic skin problems: itching, flaking, >red, oozing hot spots, etc. have turned completely around and grown new >healthy coats after changing to Hund ‘n Flocken in approx. 6 weeks time. >Its also important to supplement with vitamins, minerals, and food >enzymes: such as Sea Meal by Solid Gold
There is a strong movement in the pet community to become educated regarding the traditonal dog and cat foods which are of little value nutritionally and in many cases harmful as I have experienced with one of my dogs. The natural dog foods you have mentioned are an improvement and vitamin and mineral suppliment as well as the sea meal and flax oil will only increase their chances for good health. This is only the tip of the iceberg in regards to our pets health so stand strong with your beliefs. My dog would not be alive today were it not for a natural diet and suppliments prescribed by an incredible D.V.M. who practices alternative medicine (for the past 26 years! ). Gayle
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>Does anyone have the diet for cleansing the body. I am interested in it. >If so please post. >Thanks
There are many ways to go when cleansing the body. There’s water fasting, juice fasting, raw foods, brown rice and veggies, etc. I suggest you do some research at any local store that carries books on this. Poke through them and decide which would be the best route for you. And then go for it. Beware of what’s called the "cleansing crisis." Often, ailments are allieviated through cleansing, but the body will get worse before getting better. It’s no fun. Good luck. Erin
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Does anyone have the diet for cleansing the body. I am interested in it. If so please post. Thanks
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> Does anyone have the diet for cleansing the body. I am interested in it. > If so please post. > Thanks
I use a wash cloth and soap, plenty of water, and an ol’ Merle Haggart tune sung poorly and loudly in equal measures! Seriously, if you can’t get a "cleansing" diet from the American Dietetic Association, or Health Canada, that should tell you something. Kevin
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What is the best diet for a normal dog with no medical problems?
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Natural food diet.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is the best diet for a normal dog with no medical problems?
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Natural food diet? Is there a website that I can go to for more info Thanks
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Natural food diet. > What is the best diet for a normal dog with no medical problems?
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> Natural food diet? Is there a website that I can go to for > more info
Here’s a good starting point for information on a BARF (Bones and Raw Food) diet: http://www.barfers.com/ — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.
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I used to give my cats science diet as recommended by my vet. 6 months later my oldest one, about 15 years old died from kidney failure. This was about 5 years ago. When the senior diet came along I changed my other two cats to this. A couple of weeks ago I lost another to kidney failure. She was only 12. Does anyone have any similar experiences? It may be coincidental, but a friend also lost her cat after changing to Science diet, and I have now introduced traditional tinned food for one meal for my remaining (and lonely) cat. My vet denies there is a link between the science diet and kidney failure. Thanks Lindsay
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I personally doubt that there is a link between feeding the Science brand and your cats’ kidney problems. However, if you search this newsgroup, you will find there has been some discussion about dry food vs. wet. Were you feeding only dry food? There is a growing body of evidence that feeding dry food exclusively increases the probability of a cat developing a urinary tract infection (UTI). However, that increased probability isn’t due to a single type of dry food, although there are some that are better than others. Science is a reasonably good quality food, I believe. So, the next question is what type of kidney failure was involved. Did your cats have chronic renal failure (CRF), or did they develop the problem from a too-far-gone UTI? Left untreated, UTIs will result in a more acute onset renal failure and death. If the UTI scenario was involved, then a dry food diet may have contributed, but not necessarily a particular brand. I hope this info helps – others in this group may have better info to provide. You can learn more about kidney problems at several different web sites. Try: http://maxshouse.com, or http://www.vetinfo.com, or http://members.xoom.com/PKellyDVM/FelineHandouts.htm All of these sites have lots of good info on a variety of things. I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your cats… Laura Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
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Mine have been on Science Diet for ten years, and test fine. There truly is no link to kidney disease or failure and Science Diet. To lose a cat to kidney failure in that time frame, there had to be undiagnosed problems going on for some time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I used to give my cats science diet as recommended by my vet. 6 months > later my oldest one, about 15 years old died from kidney failure. > This was about 5 years ago. When the senior diet came along I changed my > other two cats to this. A couple of weeks ago I lost another to kidney > failure. She was only 12. Does anyone have any similar experiences? It > may be coincidental, but a friend also lost her cat after changing to > Science diet, and I have now introduced traditional tinned food for one meal > for my remaining (and lonely) cat. My vet denies there is a link between > the science diet and kidney failure. Thanks Lindsay
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>his was about 5 years ago. When the senior diet came along I changed my >other two cats to this. A couple of weeks ago I lost another to kidney >failure. She was only 12. Does anyone have any similar experiences? It >may be coincidental, but a friend also lost her cat after changing to >Science diet, and I have now introduced traditional tinned food for one meal >for my remaining (and lonely) cat. My vet denies there is a link between >the science diet and kidney failure. Thanks Lindsay
There is some suspected link between feeding a diet of dry food only, and kidney failure. You are smart to start feeding tinned food as well; this is a better choice to prevent kidney problems. I read about a group of breeders who suspected Science Diet to be responsible for early cancer deaths in many of their cats, because it contains the preservative ethoxyquin, but that’s not actually been proven. yngver (delete "nojunk" to e-mail)
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Can someone suggest what to feed a 12 year old poodle with early kidney disease?.On the Vets suggeston we have allready stopped red meat and are now using special diets.Can we use white meat or fish? without any harm? Thank you. D.S.
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No you can’t. Any meat added of any kind will increase levels of phosphorous in the diet. Follow the vets advice EXACTLY. The difference is extreme. Renal failure dogs in a recent study fed Prescription Diet k/d lived an average of 594 days post diagnosis. Those fed a normal food lived an average of 188 days. The k/d dogs also had half as many uremic crises over their life spans. This is not the time to disregard the vets advice and play around. Stick to the prescribed diet strictly and without deviation.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can someone suggest what to feed a 12 year old poodle with early kidney > disease?.On the Vets suggeston we have allready stopped red meat and are now > using special diets.Can we use white meat or fish? without any harm? > Thank you. > D.S.
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> Hi All: > I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody.
Good for you! I get excellent results from diet, myself, and am always interested in anyone else’s observations. Keep them coming. Best wishes, Terry — To e-mail me replace "spamsucks" with "azstarnet.com"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi All: > I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody. > Brian S > Brian,
Please keep us informed. I would love to know the results. It seems that something triggers it off. Regards Rossy Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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> I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody.
The details of your diet would be very helpful and greatly appreciated. Andy Kanter http://www.clearskin.com
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I can go 1 day with a diet routine and after that my desires win out… Mmmm , Those yummy Mc.Donalds french fries, and Big Mac…..(I feel like homer simpson.) ANd then those Klondike ice cream bars… THeir
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Well there you have it in a nutshell. Wheat in the buns, red meat (is it real), a dairy product with caffeine in the chocolate coating……and we musn’t forget a little grease on the fries to make it go down smooth. Will that be coke or root beer? Seriously though…..I’m the same……every now and then I just have to dive into the junk. Hey, you have to let go once in a while. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I can go 1 day with a diet routine and after that my desires win out… > Mmmm , Those yummy Mc.Donalds french fries, and Big Mac…..(I feel like > homer simpson.) ANd then those Klondike ice cream bars… THeir
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Hi All: I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this sounds interesting to anybody. Brian S
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Brian- I’d love to hear what you’ve been eating. I’ve been on the Pagano diet for about 8 weeks and can see results, but am wondering how much I can play around with it and still continue to clear. Thanks-Ellen Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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It certainly does. The more input we get on trigger foods the better. Thomas the German – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi All: > I’ve had a lot of luck by altering my diet over the past few months. I went > from 80% coverage to almost nothing in two months. I came up with this > regime by way of the net and trying to observe my trigger foods. I still > don’t know all my triggers so I decided to keep a daily log of my food > intake, vitamins and "other treatments". I just started but if there’s any > interest I’ll occasionally post the log for review. Let me know if this > sounds interesting to anybody. > Brian S
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Hi, Dan! > The quote has been taken out of context. The letter of > help was to a person experiencing extreme itching problems. > You are correct…acid neutralizing agents were recommended > for itching…not psoriasis.
I don’t know if sodium carbonate (note carbonate, not bicarbonate) would relieve itching. It is simply used to dissolve scales, nothing else. It’s an easy way of doing it. But, of course getting rid of the scaling might relieve the itching when you smoothen the skin with moisturizers afterwards… > I see much evidence here of people trying deperately to > cope with an aggravating and sometimes debilitating problem… > psoriasis. However, the evidence does not qualify as scientific.
Right, it’s anecdotal experiences more than "evidence"… > "Seeing is believing."…even scientific evidence can be > inaccurate.
Of course!!! > I hope you are doing well and learn much from some of your > posts.
Ditto! > I plan to try the "sodium bicarbonate" the next time > I itch severely.
I wouldn’t expect too much itch relief from it, since that isn’t what it is used for… But, it works well as a scale dissolver. We call it washing soda here, and we get it in the supermarket. It has nothing to do with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). It is a cheap remedy. Add 2-3 tablespoons into the bath tub. It also works as a water softener, so it is very comfy to bathe in. Heck, that alone is worth using it If you want to try something new for itching, why don’t you go to my homepage, recipe page. There you’ll find the recipe for wheat bran (note: wheat, not oat!) baths. That is certainly worth a try, and is really comfy when the itching is bad. I have enjoyed many of them, and they’re easy to prepare. If your skin is very dry, add some bath oil too. Take care!!! Hope you’re doing well!!!! — Best regards, Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen, <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/> _Aase Marit_ ))))))
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Terry, > I have seen considerable evidence here that "acid" is a > part of the psoriasis "equation", in many cases. Much testimony > from this group hints at acidosis.(AM’s "sodium bicarbonate baths", > etc.) > Hi, Dan! > My sodium bicarbonate baths don’t help on the P. It simply dissolves the > scales!!! I have never claimed otherwise. > Also, what you see here is not evidence, it really isn’t… It’s only > people’s experience or whatever to call it. Not that experience isn’t > important, it really is, but it sure isn’t evidence!!!! > Hope you’re doing well! > — > Best regards, Visit my homepage: > Med vennlig hilsen, <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/> > _Aase Marit_ ))))))
11-12-97 Hi AM, The quote has been taken out of context. The letter of help was to a person experiencing extreme itching problems. You are correct…acid neutralizing agents were recommended for itching…not psoriasis. I see much evidence here of people trying deperately to cope with an aggravating and sometimes debilitating problem… psoriasis. However, the evidence does not qualify as scientific. "Seeing is believing."…even scientific evidence can be inaccurate. I hope you are doing well and learn much from some of your posts. I plan to try the "sodium bicarbonate" the next time I itch severely. Dan
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> I hope you are doing well and learn much from some of your > posts. I plan to try the "sodium bicarbonate" the next time > I itch severely.
Dan, next time, take a look at what you’ve been eating and how it may have changed. Years ago, I was told by a derm at U. of Oregon that the itching is an allergic reaction. Best wishes, Terry — Legitimate e-mailers (not spammers) should remove the "spamsucks" and replace it with "azstarnet" in my address.
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> Terry, > I have seen considerable evidence here that "acid" is a > part of the psoriasis "equation", in many cases. Much testimony > from this group hints at acidosis.(AM’s "sodium bicarbonate baths", > etc.)
Hi, Dan! My sodium bicarbonate baths don’t help on the P. It simply dissolves the scales!!! I have never claimed otherwise. Also, what you see here is not evidence, it really isn’t… It’s only people’s experience or whatever to call it. Not that experience isn’t important, it really is, but it sure isn’t evidence!!!! Hope you’re doing well! — Best regards, Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen, <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/> _Aase Marit_ ))))))
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>Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that >works well for him. I will find it if you like.
You would find it on my web site, at http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/terry.html but AOL claims to be having "local server problems" at the moment, and my entire site is down. This really bites. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
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Hi, Josh Diet’s the only thing that’s ever worked well for me. Here’s a summary of my experience. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/terry.html Best wishes, Terry — To send friendly e-mail, replace "nospam" with "ttowne1" and "emptymind" with "mindspring.
Response:
Chicken-pox? so did I at 10 years of age. Is there a link with this disease possibly? New evidence has recently come up about chickenpox and older people. (see this BBC article on 1st May 2002). http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1961000/1961565.stm "Vaccinating children against chickenpox – an idea gaining favour in many countries – could lead to the millions of cases of shingles in older people, say UK researchers" Maybe we get psoriasis instead? Re diet: I found that non-dairy acidophilus from a health food shop had a great effect on my psoriasis. Maddie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have been to a derm, but that was a while ago. I plan on going soon since > my P is more visible now. > I was only sick once in my life: Had chicken pox when I was around a year > old and thats it (and a fever about 3 years ago for 2 days). I have never > had antibiotics in my life, or any other sort of drug intented to aid > healing (other than aspirin/tylenol for a headache ;-P ) > Thank you I will check that site out > shohei > > >Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. > My > > >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. > Hi Shohei, > First a question or two. Did you have strep and take any > antibiotics prior to P onset? Has your P been diagnosed > by a derm? If yes then a diet that aims to restore colon > function is helpful. > Here is the site where i got mine functioning better > which indirectly helps the autoimmunity factors, IMO. > www.thewholewhey.com ( i would buy the book first > and try to understand it first before making a decision > to go this way.) > > Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry > > about. > > Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that > > diet has nothing to do with psoriasis. > Right. As most of em don’t do much at all. > Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that > works well for him. I will find it if you like. > > However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment > > has other theories. > Also true and since the alts haven’t any idea how to truly > re-establish good bacteria in the colon via an acidifying > protocol such as www.thewholewhey.com ,they are mostly > worthless. Not that some alt diets followed to ad nauseam > won’t up regulate some healthly changes over a long > period of time. (hence these folks become zealots) > Notice my zealotry for instance with whey as it works, > and in a much shorter framework. More bang for your > buck in a shorter time frame holds the interest and > with any results keeps you on track. Yet, only the > most serious will be open to this route as few P’s > have found it. > > Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know > > just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing > > way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s > > inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or > > maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is > > the $64,000 question. > So, say the secret word and Groucho and his Duck > get the question ready. Why a duck? > > The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other > > hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a > > dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it > > mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. > > So, back to diet. > > It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis > > see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain > > foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it > > may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change > > their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our > > local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find > > lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it > > better. > Darn and i wanted to be pun-ny instead. Pride of Prankenstein. > > The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, > > psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. > > You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other > > stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe > > thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to > > offer. > Yes, well said. It took me for ever to find the razor to > even attempt to walk on it. > > Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a > > well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, > > psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, > > (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding > > nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another > > popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if > > you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets > > you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like. > Yes, well said. Excess sugar and stress are problems for me first > and dietary omega 6’s and arachidonic Acid (AA) seems to > be a close second. > > More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, > > except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually > > recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of > > those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the > > variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, > > especially when you just have a few spots. > > Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and > > you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here. > Yes, for sure. > And one more site for sugar and AGE’s to chew on. > First a short review: > The accumulating evidence encourages us to consider glucose as not > only the body’s short-term fuel but also a long-term fuel of > atherogenesis. In this view, the sugar becomes harmful through its > transformation into advanced glycation endproducts that not only make > blood vessels inelastic and stenotic but also activate signal pathways > through which long-term inflammation contributes to the pathology. > For intervening, the important points are that the chemical process is > lifelong and spontaneous and that it remains reversible only in its > early stages, becoming progressively less so if it is allowed to > proceed. Our rapidly evolving understanding leads us to the radical > thought that ingestion of preformed glycation end products may be the > worst trigger of vascular diseases. This in turn may imply that among > the known environmental risk factors for atherogenesis, methods of > food preparation must be added to food quantity and composition. As > usual, what is dangerous is excess. At this time in human history, > Western societies overeat. In addition, they have learned to > overprocess their foods beforehand. Alteration of habits, though > difficult, can have the best long-term influence as a preventive > measure, while new drug interventions begin to come into sight. > (For evestm to feast on with the acrylamides as this is > the diet thread.) > randall… less *expensive* free radicals = longer happier life > > J.
— Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Response:
I have been to a derm, but that was a while ago. I plan on going soon since my P is more visible now. I was only sick once in my life: Had chicken pox when I was around a year old and thats it (and a fever about 3 years ago for 2 days). I have never had antibiotics in my life, or any other sort of drug intented to aid healing (other than aspirin/tylenol for a headache ;-P ) Thank you I will check that site out shohei
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My > >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. > Hi Shohei, > First a question or two. Did you have strep and take any > antibiotics prior to P onset? Has your P been diagnosed > by a derm? If yes then a diet that aims to restore colon > function is helpful. > Here is the site where i got mine functioning better > which indirectly helps the autoimmunity factors, IMO. > www.thewholewhey.com ( i would buy the book first > and try to understand it first before making a decision > to go this way.) > Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry > about. > Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that > diet has nothing to do with psoriasis. > Right. As most of em don’t do much at all. > Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that > works well for him. I will find it if you like. > However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment > has other theories. > Also true and since the alts haven’t any idea how to truly > re-establish good bacteria in the colon via an acidifying > protocol such as www.thewholewhey.com ,they are mostly > worthless. Not that some alt diets followed to ad nauseam > won’t up regulate some healthly changes over a long > period of time. (hence these folks become zealots) > Notice my zealotry for instance with whey as it works, > and in a much shorter framework. More bang for your > buck in a shorter time frame holds the interest and > with any results keeps you on track. Yet, only the > most serious will be open to this route as few P’s > have found it. > Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know > just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing > way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s > inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or > maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is > the $64,000 question. > So, say the secret word and Groucho and his Duck > get the question ready. Why a duck? > The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other > hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a > dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it > mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. > So, back to diet. > It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis > see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain > foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it > may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change > their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our > local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find > lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it > better. > Darn and i wanted to be pun-ny instead. Pride of Prankenstein. > The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, > psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. > You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other > stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe > thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to > offer. > Yes, well said. It took me for ever to find the razor to > even attempt to walk on it. > Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a > well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, > psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, > (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding > nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another > popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if > you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets > you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like. > Yes, well said. Excess sugar and stress are problems for me first > and dietary omega 6’s and arachidonic Acid (AA) seems to > be a close second. > More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, > except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually > recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of > those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the > variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, > especially when you just have a few spots. > Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and > you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here. > Yes, for sure. > And one more site for sugar and AGE’s to chew on. > First a short review: > The accumulating evidence encourages us to consider glucose as not > only the body’s short-term fuel but also a long-term fuel of > atherogenesis. In this view, the sugar becomes harmful through its > transformation into advanced glycation endproducts that not only make > blood vessels inelastic and stenotic but also activate signal pathways > through which long-term inflammation contributes to the pathology. > For intervening, the important points are that the chemical process is > lifelong and spontaneous and that it remains reversible only in its > early stages, becoming progressively less so if it is allowed to > proceed. Our rapidly evolving understanding leads us to the radical > thought that ingestion of preformed glycation end products may be the > worst trigger of vascular diseases. This in turn may imply that among > the known environmental risk factors for atherogenesis, methods of > food preparation must be added to food quantity and composition. As > usual, what is dangerous is excess. At this time in human history, > Western societies overeat. In addition, they have learned to > overprocess their foods beforehand. Alteration of habits, though > difficult, can have the best long-term influence as a preventive > measure, while new drug interventions begin to come into sight. > (For evestm to feast on with the acrylamides as this is > the diet thread.) > randall… less *expensive* free radicals = longer happier life > J.
Response:
Hi josh(: I am also a 19 year old…(female) I have just got rid of my 3rd outbreak of guttate psoriasis…it started out like your p …little spots on my scalp…then i was coverd in it the next couple of weeks!!!…I have been into hospital for a month…its not nice): but what can you do……I find that your diet has a lot to do with psoriasis certain foods flare it up.at the moment i am on a strict diet…which seems to help me a hell of a lot i only have about 8 p spots on my body now…….so yes i would say diet helps..cutting things out.Also stress!!!!(: that is a big cause of p…..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone. > Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My > mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. I don’t know what > you people think about diets and its relationship to P. I know I have posted > a message here before and mentioned something about my diet but a person > responded saying it has nothing to do with P. Anyways… getting to the > point: Has anyone tried sticking with macrobiotic foods? My mother said she > used to eat like that until she got busy, and blah blah blah. She thinks my > "bad" eating habits cause my P to get worse, but I don’t. I have tried not > eating junk food etc for a month with no major results before. > comments/advice greatly appreciated > josh
Response:
> >Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets.
Hi Shohei, First a question or two. Did you have strep and take any antibiotics prior to P onset? Has your P been diagnosed by a derm? If yes then a diet that aims to restore colon function is helpful. Here is the site where i got mine functioning better which indirectly helps the autoimmunity factors, IMO. www.thewholewhey.com ( i would buy the book first and try to understand it first before making a decision to go this way.) > Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry > about. > Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that > diet has nothing to do with psoriasis.
Right. As most of em don’t do much at all. Terry Fenris has a page with a macrobiotic approach that works well for him. I will find it if you like. > However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment > has other theories.
Also true and since the alts haven’t any idea how to truly re-establish good bacteria in the colon via an acidifying protocol such as www.thewholewhey.com ,they are mostly worthless. Not that some alt diets followed to ad nauseam won’t up regulate some healthly changes over a long period of time. (hence these folks become zealots) Notice my zealotry for instance with whey as it works, and in a much shorter framework. More bang for your buck in a shorter time frame holds the interest and with any results keeps you on track. Yet, only the most serious will be open to this route as few P’s have found it. > Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know > just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing > way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s > inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or > maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is > the $64,000 question.
So, say the secret word and Groucho and his Duck get the question ready. Why a duck? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other > hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a > dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it > mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. > So, back to diet. > It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis > see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain > foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it > may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change > their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our > local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find > lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it > better.
Darn and i wanted to be pun-ny instead. Pride of Prankenstein. > The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, > psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. > You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other > stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe > thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to > offer.
Yes, well said. It took me for ever to find the razor to even attempt to walk on it. > Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a > well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, > psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, > (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding > nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another > popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if > you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets > you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like.
Yes, well said. Excess sugar and stress are problems for me first and dietary omega 6’s and arachidonic Acid (AA) seems to be a close second. > More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, > except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually > recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of > those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the > variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, > especially when you just have a few spots. > Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and > you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here.
Yes, for sure. And one more site for sugar and AGE’s to chew on. First a short review: The accumulating evidence encourages us to consider glucose as not only the body’s short-term fuel but also a long-term fuel of atherogenesis. In this view, the sugar becomes harmful through its transformation into advanced glycation endproducts that not only make blood vessels inelastic and stenotic but also activate signal pathways through which long-term inflammation contributes to the pathology. For intervening, the important points are that the chemical process is lifelong and spontaneous and that it remains reversible only in its early stages, becoming progressively less so if it is allowed to proceed. Our rapidly evolving understanding leads us to the radical thought that ingestion of preformed glycation end products may be the worst trigger of vascular diseases. This in turn may imply that among the known environmental risk factors for atherogenesis, methods of food preparation must be added to food quantity and composition. As usual, what is dangerous is excess. At this time in human history, Western societies overeat. In addition, they have learned to overprocess their foods beforehand. Alteration of habits, though difficult, can have the best long-term influence as a preventive measure, while new drug interventions begin to come into sight. (For evestm to feast on with the acrylamides as this is the diet thread.) randall… less *expensive* free radicals = longer happier life – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> J.
Response:
Hi everyone. Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets. I don’t know what you people think about diets and its relationship to P. I know I have posted a message here before and mentioned something about my diet but a person responded saying it has nothing to do with P. Anyways… getting to the point: Has anyone tried sticking with macrobiotic foods? My mother said she used to eat like that until she got busy, and blah blah blah. She thinks my "bad" eating habits cause my P to get worse, but I don’t. I have tried not eating junk food etc for a month with no major results before. comments/advice greatly appreciated josh
Response:
>Im a 19 year old… have ‘P’ behind ears and about 4 spots on my scalp. My >mom has been trying to do some research for me on diets.
Sorry to hear about anyone your age having even a few spots to worry about. Regarding diet, the Official Medical Establishment Position is that diet has nothing to do with psoriasis. However, the Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Medical Establishment has other theories. Here’s the thing. The Official Medical Establishment doesn’t know just what psoriasis is, except that it involves your skin producing way too many cells and not differentiating correctly, and that there’s inflammation involved from your immune system attacking something, or maybe attacking nothing. Now, just *why* any of this gets going, is the $64,000 question. The Unofficial Alternative and Fringe Establishment, on the other hand, will tell you exactly what is going on. Except, they have a dozen different stories, and they can’t all be true, and, to put it mildly, none have any significant proof behind them. So, back to diet. It sure seems that many/most people with at least widespread psoriasis see some kinds of effects, mostly aggravation, from eating certain foods. That does not mean that those foods *cause* psoriasis, but it may be reason enough to avoid them. A *few* people manage to change their diet and find that it helps clear psoriasis significantly. Our local poet laureate Randall claims something of the sort. Me, I find lots of dietary ways to make psoriasis worse, but none to make it better. The kicker is, even those who do claim that diet helps, or clear, psoriasis, tend to disagree on just exactly what foods hurt or help. You can google up tons of rantings on this group about it, and other stuff all over the web. Macrobiotic diet might be worth a try. Maybe thirty days isn’t enough. Or, maybe diet has little or nothing to offer. Here’s my advice, worth no more than you’ve paid for it: eating a well-balanced, healthy diet is likely to be a good thing for you, psoriasis or not. Avoiding high-fat, high-sugar, high-carb, (high-alcohol) diets would be advisable. Balance! Avoiding nightshade veggies (tomato, pepper, eggplant (!), potato) is another popular one. Eating less carbs is another theory, but that’s hard if you go the macrobiotic direction. Less red meat and more fish gets you a better balance of EFAs. Go as far down these roads as you like. More important, make sure you see a real dermatologist now and again, except … watch out for those steroid ointments they usually recommend first, go easy on those, google up some discussions of those. Get some sun (unless you find it makes it worse — there’s the variability of psoriasis again!), that often helps keep things down, especially when you just have a few spots. Hope some of this helps, good luck to you, if you try any of this and you find it helps, it’d be great if you’d post it back here. J.
Response:
I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California Natural. They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health and poor digestion. Dogs with chronic skin problems: itching, flaking, red, oozing hot spots, etc. have turned completely around and grown new healthy coats after changing to Hund ‘n Flocken in approx. 6 weeks time. Its also important to supplement with vitamins, minerals, and food enzymes: such as Sea Meal by Solid Gold
Response:
>I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my >grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California >Natural. >They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health >and poor digestion. Dogs with chronic skin problems: itching, flaking, >red, oozing hot spots, etc. have turned completely around and grown new >healthy coats after changing to Hund ‘n Flocken in approx. 6 weeks time. >Its also important to supplement with vitamins, minerals, and food >enzymes: such as Sea Meal by Solid Gold
You forget to say what ingredients they have in them from most to least please? And if those dogs are so good then there should be no need for any supplements at all they should be a complete and balanced diet?
Response:
>I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my >grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California >Natural. >They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health >and poor digestion.
How do you know this? Are you a nutritionist? How many classes in canine nutrition have you had? Have you ever heard of "ingredient splitting"? .. this is a commonly used marketing "trick" where the manufacturer splits corn into corn gluten, corn meal, or wheat into wheat bran, flour, etc. to make Chicken or Beef or whatever appear like the largest ingredient and get listed first on the label. It is all marketing. Anyone can make pet food, slap a label on the bag, and sell it. No feeding trials are required. This means some products on the shelves have never even been fed to an animal before, and the company wants you to believe it is the "best" for your pet. Look for an AAFCO statement on the pet food label. Look for the word "feeding" somewhere in that statement. This does not guarantee a well balanced absorbable, digestable diet, but it at least means the company has invested time, effort, and money into feeding the food to a group of animals for a short period of time, and the animals have not shown any nutritional deficits following the feeding trial. I am amazed at how many "pet foods" on the store shelves don’t have such a statement. Look at "treats" too. You may be suprised.
Response:
>I’d like to suggest two dog foods that have done remarkably well in my >grooming/pet retail store. Solid Gold Hund ‘n Flocken and California >Natural. >They have none of the junk ingredients that typically cause poor health >and poor digestion. Dogs with chronic skin problems: itching, flaking, >red, oozing hot spots, etc. have turned completely around and grown new >healthy coats after changing to Hund ‘n Flocken in approx. 6 weeks time. >Its also important to supplement with vitamins, minerals, and food >enzymes: such as Sea Meal by Solid Gold
There is a strong movement in the pet community to become educated regarding the traditonal dog and cat foods which are of little value nutritionally and in many cases harmful as I have experienced with one of my dogs. The natural dog foods you have mentioned are an improvement and vitamin and mineral suppliment as well as the sea meal and flax oil will only increase their chances for good health. This is only the tip of the iceberg in regards to our pets health so stand strong with your beliefs. My dog would not be alive today were it not for a natural diet and suppliments prescribed by an incredible D.V.M. who practices alternative medicine (for the past 26 years! ). Gayle
Response:
>Does anyone have the diet for cleansing the body. I am interested in it. >If so please post. >Thanks
There are many ways to go when cleansing the body. There’s water fasting, juice fasting, raw foods, brown rice and veggies, etc. I suggest you do some research at any local store that carries books on this. Poke through them and decide which would be the best route for you. And then go for it. Beware of what’s called the "cleansing crisis." Often, ailments are allieviated through cleansing, but the body will get worse before getting better. It’s no fun. Good luck. Erin
Response:
Does anyone have the diet for cleansing the body. I am interested in it. If so please post. Thanks
Response:
> Does anyone have the diet for cleansing the body. I am interested in it. > If so please post. > Thanks
I use a wash cloth and soap, plenty of water, and an ol’ Merle Haggart tune sung poorly and loudly in equal measures! Seriously, if you can’t get a "cleansing" diet from the American Dietetic Association, or Health Canada, that should tell you something. Kevin
Response:
–WebTV-Mail-597897945-3570 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I suffered like the rest of you, But not any more. Iv found what works fo me, And now my face is baby soft. It was easy I stared cleaning my self out from the in side, I stared a diet of natural juices & foods, Now Im acne free for over 5 years plus i well give you info for free –WebTV-Mail-597897945-3570 Content-Description: signature Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT <html> <font color=black><font effect=shadow><H1><b><marquee>From the healthiest man alive, I welcome you to my world, as strange as it may seem, click on the Alien to visit my world…..-Juiceman</marquee> <center> <a href="http://members.tripod.com/~ethanesq/index.html"transition="zoominout"> <img SRC="http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/7406/alien.gif"> <bgsound SRC="http://www.stoutman.com/wavs/oneliners/halsorry.wav" autostart=true> </html></a></font></body> –WebTV-Mail-597897945-3570–
Response:
I’m only 135 lbs, but I can out eat my 250lbs friends. Sometimes we’ll go to pizza and I’ll have a whole large, or I’ll go to Burger King and eat 5 whoppers…Is this leading to me to have worse acne than the already horrible acne I have? Does a low fat diet help, or a diary free diet help? Or is diet just a lie…and it doesn’t matter what you eat? Also, are processed foods with stuff like whey, and all those chemicals bad for the skin? Do they block the pores causing more breakouts? Thanks : )
Response:
My doctors assure me that diet has NOTHING!! to do with the cause of acne. However, they say that certain foods can cause acne.?? BUT different foods affect different people. For me, when eating a lemon or a curry, it makes my face sweat and more oil is also produced. The pores that are already blocked become moreso with the new addition. Who knows? Acne is a very difficult subject to talk about. It just affects different people in different ways so it hard to give the right drug to the right patient. I am assured by my doc though that fresh air and even sunlight can help clear up spots. Basically it does the same as accutane, (very slightly)- makes your skin dry up. I have another question to ask you all though. What does accutane do exactly? Does it just lower the amount of oil produces by the glands?
Response:
>My doctors assure me that diet has NOTHING!! to do with the cause of acne.
The cause of acne is not known. Genetics and hormones are factors. >However, they say that certain foods can cause acne.??
Certain foods can aggravate acne in sensitive individuals. Typically these include iodine, sugar, caffeine, peanut butter, and others. >BUT different foods affect different people. For me, when eating a lemon or >a curry, it makes my face sweat and more oil is also produced. The pores >that are already blocked become moreso with the new addition.
Everyone is different. If your body reacts negatively to certain foods, then by all means avoid them. >I have another question to ask you all though. >What does accutane do exactly? Does it just lower the amount of oil produces >by the glands?
This is interesting. My understanding is accutane affects the sebaceous glands, somehow shrinking their size so that less oil is produced. I have heard though from my derm that it is not known exactly how accutane achieves this result, ie. the mechanism by which accutane accomplishes this is not understood. Dee
Response:
Definetly nothing with sugar in….but thats about as much as I know. Jack
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> what are the things I shouldn’t be eating? > Jim > — > i’m not living, > i’m just killing time
Response:
>I seem to have a bad reaction when i drink more than a cup of milk a >day or even coffee. I don’t think anything with sugar in it is bad, >maybe the processed stuff like pop.. some fruits have tons of sugar >like canteloupe and no one i know has had bad reactions to it.
Natural sugars from fruit (fructose) are metabolized more slowly by the body than refined white sugar (sucrose). Fruit also has fiber which buffers the digestion of the fructose, so that fructose does not cause an insulin spike, unlike white sugar. White sugars (including sucrose, corn syrup, sorbitol, maltitol, etc) are the ones that are most likely to exacerbate acne in people who have dietary triggers. Dee
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > i saw this list on foods to eat / not to eat for acne prevention > on a link from www.about.com However i haven’t been able to > find the actual link, but i’ve copied it down. > i would also add iodine to the list of foods to avoid. for many > people it inflames their acne. > try to get a lot of carrots and green bell peppers into your > diet. > FOODS TO EAT > Green Vegetables > Carrots > Celery > Onions > Garlic > Cucumber > Watercress > Kelp > Seaweeds
Kelp and seawwd are notoriously high in Iodine, I would say avoid them at all cost. that means no more sushi 
Lady ——
Response:
If you’re worried about your diet’s effect on acne you can just go the hardcore route. Go on a water fast. Of course do some research before you do it. But fasting has been used many times in the past to clear up acne. I went on a 1 day water fast two weeks ago. Went on a three day juice fast this past weekend. And I’ve cleared up 50%. Also my skin just feels so much better and so does my health. I feel that my skin is a lot less oily and i feel that my body can fight the acne infection quickly if the pores were infected by acne. When you get off the fast slowly add foods in and see if your skin has any reaction to it. I went off the erythomycin that my doctor prescribed. I started juicing organic carrots, green bell peppers, parsley, and potatoes. That gives me the beta carotene, zinc, and other vitamins I need to make my immune system strong. I also use benzamycin every night. Good luck. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Avoid all dairy based foods including cheese and yogurt. Remember: milk is for babies. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > what are the things I shouldn’t be eating? > Jim > — > i’m not living, > i’m just killing time
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–WebTV-Mail-597897945-3570 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I suffered like the rest of you, But not any more. Iv found what works fo me, And now my face is baby soft. It was easy I stared cleaning my self out from the in side, I stared a diet of natural juices & foods, Now Im acne free for over 5 years plus i well give you info for free –WebTV-Mail-597897945-3570 Content-Description: signature Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT <html> <font color=black><font effect=shadow><H1><b><marquee>From the healthiest man alive, I welcome you to my world, as strange as it may seem, click on the Alien to visit my world…..-Juiceman</marquee> <center> <a href="http://members.tripod.com/~ethanesq/index.html"transition="zoominout"> <img SRC="http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/7406/alien.gif"> <bgsound SRC="http://www.stoutman.com/wavs/oneliners/halsorry.wav" autostart=true> </html></a></font></body> –WebTV-Mail-597897945-3570–
Response:
I’m only 135 lbs, but I can out eat my 250lbs friends. Sometimes we’ll go to pizza and I’ll have a whole large, or I’ll go to Burger King and eat 5 whoppers…Is this leading to me to have worse acne than the already horrible acne I have? Does a low fat diet help, or a diary free diet help? Or is diet just a lie…and it doesn’t matter what you eat? Also, are processed foods with stuff like whey, and all those chemicals bad for the skin? Do they block the pores causing more breakouts? Thanks : )
Response:
My doctors assure me that diet has NOTHING!! to do with the cause of acne. However, they say that certain foods can cause acne.?? BUT different foods affect different people. For me, when eating a lemon or a curry, it makes my face sweat and more oil is also produced. The pores that are already blocked become moreso with the new addition. Who knows? Acne is a very difficult subject to talk about. It just affects different people in different ways so it hard to give the right drug to the right patient. I am assured by my doc though that fresh air and even sunlight can help clear up spots. Basically it does the same as accutane, (very slightly)- makes your skin dry up. I have another question to ask you all though. What does accutane do exactly? Does it just lower the amount of oil produces by the glands?
Response:
>My doctors assure me that diet has NOTHING!! to do with the cause of acne.
The cause of acne is not known. Genetics and hormones are factors. >However, they say that certain foods can cause acne.??
Certain foods can aggravate acne in sensitive individuals. Typically these include iodine, sugar, caffeine, peanut butter, and others. >BUT different foods affect different people. For me, when eating a lemon or >a curry, it makes my face sweat and more oil is also produced. The pores >that are already blocked become moreso with the new addition.
Everyone is different. If your body reacts negatively to certain foods, then by all means avoid them. >I have another question to ask you all though. >What does accutane do exactly? Does it just lower the amount of oil produces >by the glands?
This is interesting. My understanding is accutane affects the sebaceous glands, somehow shrinking their size so that less oil is produced. I have heard though from my derm that it is not known exactly how accutane achieves this result, ie. the mechanism by which accutane accomplishes this is not understood. Dee
Response:
Definetly nothing with sugar in….but thats about as much as I know. Jack
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> what are the things I shouldn’t be eating? > Jim > — > i’m not living, > i’m just killing time
Response:
>I seem to have a bad reaction when i drink more than a cup of milk a >day or even coffee. I don’t think anything with sugar in it is bad, >maybe the processed stuff like pop.. some fruits have tons of sugar >like canteloupe and no one i know has had bad reactions to it.
Natural sugars from fruit (fructose) are metabolized more slowly by the body than refined white sugar (sucrose). Fruit also has fiber which buffers the digestion of the fructose, so that fructose does not cause an insulin spike, unlike white sugar. White sugars (including sucrose, corn syrup, sorbitol, maltitol, etc) are the ones that are most likely to exacerbate acne in people who have dietary triggers. Dee
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > i saw this list on foods to eat / not to eat for acne prevention > on a link from www.about.com However i haven’t been able to > find the actual link, but i’ve copied it down. > i would also add iodine to the list of foods to avoid. for many > people it inflames their acne. > try to get a lot of carrots and green bell peppers into your > diet. > FOODS TO EAT > Green Vegetables > Carrots > Celery > Onions > Garlic > Cucumber > Watercress > Kelp > Seaweeds
Kelp and seawwd are notoriously high in Iodine, I would say avoid them at all cost. that means no more sushi Lady ——
Response:
If you’re worried about your diet’s effect on acne you can just go the hardcore route. Go on a water fast. Of course do some research before you do it. But fasting has been used many times in the past to clear up acne. I went on a 1 day water fast two weeks ago. Went on a three day juice fast this past weekend. And I’ve cleared up 50%. Also my skin just feels so much better and so does my health. I feel that my skin is a lot less oily and i feel that my body can fight the acne infection quickly if the pores were infected by acne. When you get off the fast slowly add foods in and see if your skin has any reaction to it. I went off the erythomycin that my doctor prescribed. I started juicing organic carrots, green bell peppers, parsley, and potatoes. That gives me the beta carotene, zinc, and other vitamins I need to make my immune system strong. I also use benzamycin every night. Good luck. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Avoid all dairy based foods including cheese and yogurt. Remember: milk is for babies. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > what are the things I shouldn’t be eating? > Jim > — > i’m not living, > i’m just killing time